Ceiling fan wiring help

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spartan91

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I am replacing a ceiling fan and am puzzled about the wiring. There are two white wires and one red. Using a continuity tester (? -two prongs leading to a bulb) I determined the red AND a white are hot and the other white is neutral. Inside the metal box there are two black wires connected with a connector nut (this appears to have had nothing to do with installing the previous fan because the black wires are very short, unlike the long whites and red).

With the power back on the red was live only with the wall switch turned on. The hot white wire lit the bulb even when the wall switch was off. Is this normal? If so what wires do I connect the ceiling fan to? The instructions only say connect white to white and black to black (red) not mentioning what to do with two hot wires.

20150222_210010.jpg
 

hj

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The red is the switched leg coming back from the wall switch, (usually it would have been the white hot wire), it connects to the fan's black wire. The hot white may be for the fan's light fixture, but would normally have a switch on the wall also, you have to check how it is wired inside the switch box. If you have a light accessory, you may need a different switch so you can control it also. the two black wires are the incoming hot wire and the hot wire down to the switch.
 

spartan91

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The red is the switched leg coming back from the wall switch, (usually it would have been the white hot wire), it connects to the fan's black wire. The hot white may be for the fan's light fixture, but would normally have a switch on the wall also, you have to check how it is wired inside the switch box. If you have a light accessory, you may need a different switch so you can control it also. the two black wires are the incoming hot wire and the hot wire down to the switch.

Thank you for your fast reply!

I uploaded pics of the wall switch: white and black coming from the bottom and white, black and red coming from the top. Each black is connected and another black runs to the bottom of the switch. Each white is connected and capped. The red runs directly from the sheath to the top of the switch.
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The fan has a black wire for the motor and a blue one for the light fixture. Since there is a pull chain for the fan and a pull chain for the light can I hook up one hot wire to the fan and the other to the light?

The previous fan did not have a light kit.
 

spartan91

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Thank you for your fast reply!

I uploaded pics of the wall switch: white and black coming from the bottom and white, black and red coming from the top. Each black is connected and another black runs to the bottom of the switch. Each white is connected and capped. The red runs directly from the sheath to the top of the switch.View attachment 28299

The fan has a black wire for the motor and a blue one for the light fixture. Since there is a pull chain for the fan and a pull chain for the light can I hook up one hot wire to the fan and the other to the light?

The previous fan did not have a light kit.

Another pic
 

Jadnashua

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The red wire becomes 'hot' when you close that wall switch. Red is the commonly used color to indicate a switched hot lead. The black up in the ceiling box is always hot, so could be used to power the fan if you are going to use its internal pull-chain activated switch for it, and the red wire from the switch to only control the light. If you always wanted the light to come on when the fan was on, you could power both the fan and the light from the switch, and not use the black wire up there which is essentially, just passing through, but providing the neutral (white) and ground needed to complete the circuit.
 

hj

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From your pictures, and the wires are somewhat tangled, I do not see how the white wire could be "hot", since it appears to be wire nutted to the other white wire outside your photo.
 

spartan91

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From your pictures, and the wires are somewhat tangled, I do not see how the white wire could be "hot", since it appears to be wire nutted to the other white wire outside your photo.

Thank you to everyone who replied so far!

One white wire in the ceiling is neutral and one is hot. The red is switched hot. The nutted white wires are from the wall switch. I did not change anything in the wall switch. I hooked up the red switched ceiling wire to the fans light so we could turn it on and off from the wall switch. I connected the always hot white ceiling wire to the fan motor and planned on using the fans pull chain to power it. That all works like a charm.

The problem...now with all the power back on I don't have my closet light and the bedroom next to me working properly. When the fan is off (the white hot ceiling wire) no power is getting there at all. When I pull the chain to power the fan motor I get dim lighting in the closet and next bedroom. On the first pull (highest fan speed) I get minimal power. On the second pull it is barely noticeable. Perhaps this is why there wasn't a light kit on the previous ceiling fan? Is there anything that can be done short of bringing in an electrician to rewire?
 

Jadnashua

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The white you found to be hot is possibly the switch leg for the lamp in the closet. What you are seeing is the result of putting things in series, and they are designed to be in parallel. While people get sloppy, if a wire is used for other than its designated purpose (color), it is supposed to be marked with either something like colored electrical tape or an indelible marker to indicate its function. IOW, what I think is happening is the power that is supposed to go to the closet has to go through the fan first, and then Ohm's law is coming into use that is dividing the voltage between the two things when all of it should be going to only one or the other.

If the original fan was only powered by the switch (the red wire), you have to look for a second constant on lead, and that SHOULD be the black wires in the ceiling box. It seems you have three cables coming into the box at the ceiling...how were the white wires connected to the old fan? You need to replicate that white wire connection, and if you need a constant hot, it is probably going to come from the black leads. A hot white is either a switch leg, or if the return for something else on in that run, could show high voltage depending on the meter you have, but after it has gone through something like that light bulb on the way back to the panel...open leads can be confusing.
 
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spartan91

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The white you found to be hot is possibly the switch leg for the lamp in the closet. What you are seeing is the result of putting things in series, and they are designed to be in parallel. While people get sloppy, if a wire is used for other than its designated purpose (color), it is supposed to be marked with either something like colored electrical tape or an indelible marker to indicate its function. IOW, what I think is happening is the power that is supposed to go to the closet has to go through the fan first, and then Ohm's law is coming into use that is dividing the voltage between the two things when all of it should be going to only one or the other.

If the original fan was only powered by the switch (the red wire), you have to look for a second constant on lead, and that SHOULD be the black wires in the ceiling box. It seems you have three cables coming into the box at the ceiling...how were the white wires connected to the old fan? You need to replicate that white wire connection, and if you need a constant hot, it is probably going to come from the black leads. A hot white is either a switch leg, or if the return for something else on in that run, could show high voltage depending on the meter you have, but after it has gone through something like that light bulb on the way back to the panel...open leads can be confusing.

Unfortunately when I pulled the wires out of the box while taking the fan down some disconnected and I didn't want to guess. Perhaps the reason it disconnected easily was because something was connected to the black wires that are not very long up there. The other three are six inches or so and pulled out easily. The closet and bedroom next to it are all connected after the fan. A local hardware electrician said he sees a lot of houses in this area having the main power coming from the ceiling and then power was run down from there.

If I put the fan and light on the red switched hot wire and connected the white hot to the nutted black wires, should that solve the problem?
 

hj

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That white wire IS a neutral and now you have it wired in series with the fan motor which is why the fan turns slower and the lights change intensity when you change fan speeds. It "indicated" hot when it was disconnected because one of the lights was turned on and the hot was "feeding through them", looking for a neutral.
 

JWelectric

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Look at the picture in the first post, connect both white wires with the white from the fan light combo with a wire nut, connect the two wires, one motor the other light and the red under a wire nut. Now everything is back as it should be and everything will work as it is supposed to. The fan and light both can be controlled by the switch or the pull chain as long as the switch is closed.
 

spartan91

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Look at the picture in the first post, connect both white wires with the white from the fan light combo with a wire nut, connect the two wires, one motor the other light and the red under a wire nut. Now everything is back as it should be and everything will work as it is supposed to. The fan and light both can be controlled by the switch or the pull chain as long as the switch is closed.

Thanks for the help everyone! Connected like you said and now everything works. Great forum! I know just enough about DIY things to be dangerous so I'm sure I'll be back.
 
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