Securing Flange to New Concrete

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Cacher_Chick

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The flange normally goes on after the rest of the work is done. If you leave the riser sticking up a couple feet, it is a lot easier to make sure it is straight. Wrap the pipe at floor level with cardboard & tape so you have clearance around it when the concrete is poured.
 

Rrmathome

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The flange normally goes on after the rest of the work is done. If you leave the riser sticking up a couple feet, it is a lot easier to make sure it is straight. Wrap the pipe at floor level with cardboard & tape so you have clearance around it when the concrete is poured.

Oh. Well. That was easy.

Thank you.
 

Rrmathome

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So, the Little Giant pump has a float switch and it is secured to the discharge pipe with a plastic tie-wrap. Its pretty tight. I needed to undo and it put a new one on (didnt like the positioning of it) and had to make it tight again.

Then, I put in my Zoeller alarm. The float for that has a nice clip like this:
http://www.milbyco.com/sump-effluent-sewage/alarms-floats/float-clamp-and-cable-clip

I am wondering if I should get another clip like this and put it on the Little Giant float. My concern is that the tie-wrap is tight and all of the up and down will strain the wire. The Zoeller-style clip seems much safer.

What do you think? Would you get the new clip of just leave it?

I would need to order it online and it would probably add another week to my job. But could be worth it if I am getting a new pump in a couple of years because of the tie-wrap.
 

Cacher_Chick

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The zoeller systems I have installed were zip tied. It's not like the float is pulling hard on the cable, so I would not be concerned. The important part is that the length is adjusted properly.
 

Rrmathome

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The zoeller systems I have installed were zip tied. It's not like the float is pulling hard on the cable, so I would not be concerned. The important part is that the length is adjusted properly.
I think the length is ok. I will be testing with the cover off before closing everything up.
 

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Now that I put the pump and the alarm in, it seems there is not much space for the two floats. Is it possible they get caught between the side of the basin and the discharge pipe? the discharge pipe is only a few inches from the end of the basin--that's just the way the pump is designed. I would think they would design it so that the discharge is somewhat centered in the basin considering floats will be attached to it.
 

Reach4

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Sorry. I had lost track of the fact that you are working with a sealed sewage pit rather than a sump pump. The switches and alarms that I had talked of were for non-sealed rain water sumps. Part of my confusion was running over to page 2, and that together with inattention took me off topic.
 
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Rrmathome

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Even coming off to the side is ok if the side of the pump it came off was placed in the middle of the basin. The pump is off-center in my basin. So lets say the pump was off-center to the left, the discharge would be close to centered if the discharge were on the right side of the pump. I cant just rotate the pump because the holes in the cover (and a molded piece of plastic on the bottom of the basin which has spots for the pump's legs) force the pump to be off-centered to the left.

I will be testing with the cover off (hopefully tonight) and should see if the floats are restricted by being so close to the basin wall. Im assuming that if they are ok in a few test runs, they should be good going forward. Forever. And ever and ever.

So, would you say that the sensor you mentioned is better than the float type? This is the one that I bought is the Zoeller 10-1494 shown on this page:
https://www.plumbingsupply.com/zoeller-alarm-systems.html

The sensor-type you mentioned certainly takes up less space.
 

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I had lost track of the fact that you are working with a sealed sewage pit rather than a sump pump. I will delete the references that I made that are not suitable for sewage pits. Sorry.
 
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FullySprinklered

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There's a 4x3 elbow called a closet el. Install it with the 4'' sticking up with a couple of feet of 4" pipe glued in. Do everything; trench, concrete, tile, then saw the pipe off and glue on the closet flange and screw it down. The flange will be the one that goes inside 4" pipe.
The pipe for outbound sewage doesn't have to be centered. Just make sure the holes in the lid line up with the holes in the lip of the tank, and make sure the float can move freely.
 

Rrmathome

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There's a 4x3 elbow called a closet el. Install it with the 4'' sticking up with a couple of feet of 4" pipe glued in. Do everything; trench, concrete, tile, then saw the pipe off and glue on the closet flange and screw it down. The flange will be the one that goes inside 4" pipe.
The pipe for outbound sewage doesn't have to be centered. Just make sure the holes in the lid line up with the holes in the lip of the tank, and make sure the float can move freely.

I've glued a 3" elbow -- where the flange will go outside of it. I have not yet covered it up and cemented it. Should I change it? It would be a hassle. Would it be worth the hassle?

The part of the float being able to move freely is what I am concerned about. Hopefully a few tests will let me know.
 

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Ok, I have done some testing but I have some big questions here. I hope this post isnt too long. I apologize ahead of time if it is.

#1
I tested the float switches. The pump's on/off came on a bit late, only about an inch from the bottom of the intake. And in doing so, got caught under the "nub" on the front intake (left side). But as the water rose, it floated to the side and worked properly. Still, I wasnt happy with that. The alarm, got caught under the "nub" on the right side and didnt go off. -- which is what I was afraid of.

So, I moved both switches and shortened the tethers. They seem to work ok now. The on/off makes before the float touches the intake nub (I hope someone can tell me what that piece is called so I dont have to keep using the word "nub"). The alarm sits on top of the pump and comes on about an inch below the intake level.

This is the best placement I can think of for these. Do you think these switches will be reliable based on what you can see or is there a better way to set them? The tether on each is only about 3.5". Actually, the tether on the alarm may be a bit less than that now.

floats.jpg


#2

The manual says to have the check valve horizontal if used for solids. So, I put it horizontal. In order to do that, I needed a couple of bends. I tried to use all 45s so they are not sharp bends. It seems to work just fine.

But the manual also says to have on the waste line: a union, a check valve, and a gate/ball valve. In that order. I am questioning this.

UNION
I dont see the value in a union. A union lets you easily disconnect things. In this case, with the union glued to the waste pipe, even undoing the union wont allow you to take the cover off for maintenance. The bottom half of the union would prevent the cover from sliding off the waste pipe--which is threaded into the pump. So, what would the value of a union be? It seems that a compression coupling or a fernco would make more sense. These can be removed completely and easily so that the cover could slide right off. A union on the vent would make sense since the vent only goes into the cover a couple of inches and could easily be removed with the cover once the union is undone.

CHECK VALVE
No problem with this.

GATE/BALL VALVE
I went with the ball valve because I couldnt find a PVC gate valve in 2". But again, I dont see the value. The valve is for isolating the pump for maintenance (I think). But there is a check valve. Nothing should come back any further than that. And if the check valve was stuck open or not working in some way, there is only the small amount of pipe from the valve to the main waste line. I cant imagine any residential situation has much distance between the two. And since the waste must connect to the main from above, there is no danger of anything else coming down into the basin. So what is the real value of the valve?

pipes.jpg


#3
The pump comes on when the water is about 14 inches deep (bottom of the intake is 16"). It shuts off at about 7 inches. At 18 inches diameter that means it is pumping about 1 cubic foot of water--or about 8 gallons.

That doesnt seem very efficient considering it is a 30 gallon basin. I plan on putting my washing machine into this basin as well as the downstairs bathroom. Will this be pumping too often? If my washing machine uses 20 gallons (just a guess based on what I have read), the pump could turn on 3 times per wash cycle.
 
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