Reduced well yield

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laynes69

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Here for about the last year and a half, we have been having water issues. If too much water was used in the home, the pump would run dry during use and it would reprime itself within a minute. We never had any issues with this prior to it happening. We called out a well company and they wanted to send a drill down our 70' well, brush and bail to restore the well. I was okay with this until it was going to cost close to 2000 dollars and results weren't guaranteed. I contacted a few others, and they were around 500 cheaper but still no guarantee. The last company I called recommended bleaching the well and adding iron out. He stated it may take a few times but things should improve. Around 25 years ago my father was told the well went dry, but someone used muratic acid and it was problem free for the next 20+ years. I have no well log, but was told it was around 70' deep. I went out there this morning and the pit is around 6.5' deep. From the top of the well, it was 19' to water, and 66' deep to bottom. It's a 3/4 hp deep jet pump. Any ideas, suggestions? It's not that I'm trying to be cheap, it's taking a 2000 gamble.
 

laynes69

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That's the way I'm reading it. The pump is set to 50 off and 30 on. The backpressure has been turned up so the pump doesn't lose prime, where for years past, that adjustment was almost all of the way out. Here lately, after running water for a bit, the pressure on the pump drops to 10 psi or less and the water is at a trickle.
 

Craigpump

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Cotey makes a product that's used to kill iron in a well, but it's pricey. The lines have to be pulled, a hoist truck set up, the well brushed after putting the product in the well, then a string of pipe is run in and the well developed with an air compressor. The lines are then reinstalled.

$2000.00 is a very fair price for that job considering the labor, hoist truck time, compressor and product to clean the well. I don't know how anyone could do it for less.
 

laynes69

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The company that was going to brush and bail I think wasn't going to use chemicals. It sounds like that will be my option and even if bleach helped, I'm only buying time. All of the wells in the area produced between 8-15 gpm when drilled. Do you know the chances on well rehabilitation to be successful? There's a company that can drill a new well with pump, tank, everything for 5,000. The issue is we have excellent water and don't want to lose it. If we can successfully rehab the well, I'm looking to install a submersible pump and do away with the pit.
 

Craigpump

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A new well & pump for $5000? Sounds awful cheap to me.
How deep?
How much casing?
What kind & size of pump & tank?

There's no guarantee on anything being successful, but around here in Ct we see a lot of shallow wells just peter out over the years. Could be iron or depleted zones.

If you're going to use bleach, you want to get the ph down, the guy who surges my wells uses stuff call ph minus, it's made for swimming pools. Dump some of that in, then the chlorine, circulate through the well for a few hours then run it off until clear. Another thing is some guys swear by dry ice. Throw 30 lbs in the well and let it roll the water until it settles then pump until clear. The claim is that the carbonic acid in dry ice kills iron......
 

laynes69

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Dry ice never crossed my mind, that would agitate things. The company I spoke with for a new well, I don't know all the details, but a 4" casing, he uses grundfos pumps I believe and the well depth would probably come in around 110' or so. It's tempting, but it's also 5,000 dollars. He is one of the areas largest drillers. Could dry ice be used with the bleach? I know vinegar will also lower the pH of the water. I tested the water tonight and it was about 7.
 

Reach4

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If you get a new well, I would suggest considering a 5 inch casing with a "4 inch" submersible pump. You can have a "4 inch" 3.75 pump in a 4 inch casing. I do. The 5 inch casing would give more margin. I am skeptical of the life of the 3 inch pumps turning 10,000+ RPM.

The well company presumably knows the area. I think I would opt for the remediation if they said that is usually effective in similar wells.
 

Craigpump

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I'm not sure about the reaction between the chlorine and carbon dioxide, maybe someone else would know?

A ph of 7 is neutral, I think my guy gets the ph down to between 5 & 6 before adding the chlorine.

The largest companies don't always do the best work, too many employees leads to loss of quality control.
 

laynes69

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Okay, another question. Will the lines need to be pulled from the well prior to treating, and after treating, would things just be pumped out to waste?
 

Craigpump

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The lines don't have to be pulled, but there is a possibility that the screen on the footvalve could become covered with and plugged by the iron. You should be prepared to pull them and clean off the footvalve.
 

laynes69

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Okay thank you. I'm off on vacation for 11 more days, so it will give me something to do. I'm guessing after I do this, I should notice if yield improves when I pump out.
 

Texas Wellman

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I agree with craig. Also, if your pump is a jet setup put a piece of tailpipe about 30' long under the jet. This will allow the pump to equalize with what the well produces.

Before spending any money rehabbing the well pull the jet assembly out of the well and inspect the nozzle and venturi. There cannot be any trash or debris in it or else it will not work properly.
 

Texas Wellman

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There is only one grundfos pump that spins that fast and its made to go in a 3" well. A normal "4 inch" pump is more like 3.9" and I have set and removed hundreds of them in 4 inch wells. The majority of issues crop up when they are not properly installed and things like rope and torque arrestors bind the pump up.

If you get a new well, I would suggest considering a 5 inch casing with a "4 inch" submersible pump. You can have a "4 inch" 3.75 pump in a 4 inch casing. I do. The 5 inch casing would give more margin. I am skeptical of the life of the 3 inch pumps turning 10,000+ RPM.

The well company presumably knows the area. I think I would opt for the remediation if they said that is usually effective in similar wells.
 

LLigetfa

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A normal "4 inch" pump is more like 3.9"...
On wells with nasty water, a ring of encrusted minerals can form at the waterline and could be a bear to get the pump past it. When I pulled my 10 year old pump from my 6 inch casing, the pump itself had more than a 1/4" of encrustation. I ran a heavy chunk of steel that had a close fit up and down the casing and could feel a ring of encrustation at the waterline.
 

Reach4

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There is only one grundfos pump that spins that fast and its made to go in a 3" well. A normal "4 inch" pump is more like 3.9" and I have set and removed hundreds of them in 4 inch wells. The majority of issues crop up when they are not properly installed and things like rope and torque arrestors bind the pump up.
I have a Sta-rite "slimline", and would figure to buy a similar size if I needed a replacement into the 4-inch steel casing. The pump man had suggested putting in a 3 inch pump to replace the functioning 12 (installed) to 14 (date code) year old pump before it got pulled to put in the casing extension. I had him put the old pump back. Calculated risk. If it works for 4 more years, I will be glad I made the decision. I am hoping for more of course. The old pump looked really nice and clean on its outside.

He said there was some hanging up at some point, but it tugged free.

It would be interesting if somebody published an independent study of the life of different pumps. I think this could be written from data from county records. It might make a good masters thesis. It seems a lot more useful than a lot of topics. Since the 3 inch pumps have not been in service that long, I think it would require some good statistical analysis methods to make a fair comparison.
 

Craigpump

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Your StaRite slim line pump still has a motor diameter of 3.750 inches......

I would have no concerns about a 4" pump inside a 4" well cased with 4" sch 40 pvc, we do it all the time up here when we have an unstable section and the well wants to collapse.

The absolute, hands down best pumps I've ever seen were the old style brass Goulds with the Franklin motors. It isn't unusual to see them 25 yrs old, a month ago we pulled a 1/3-7 that was installed in 1976! How can you beat that? I've been told the early REDA was a good pump as well as a Sumo.... We pulled an old brass StaRite a few years ago that had been in the better part of 35 yrs as I recall.

Pumps aren't what they used to be so I tell my customers to expect 12-15 yrs from our installs.
 

laynes69

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Thanks everyone for the help. Our problem is getting worse, and it seems the pump keeps losing prime. I believe it was 94 since anything was done to the well, so more than likely things are plugged. I've done electrical, ductwork, drywall, framing etc. but never anything with a well. It's been 10 years since we've been here, and now it's time to learn. I called the local health department today, and they have no well log on the home. My grandmother owned the home in 64 or so and she didn't have it drilled, so it's older than that. I'm going to bring down the pH on the well, shock it and add some dry ice to agitate things. I'm also going to pull the lines, check the foot valve and the injector. Hopefully I'll get things back in order. If there's not a tail pipe, I'll add one. From the neighbors drill logs, they have aproximately 40 feet of casing, that just about all of them, so I'm assuming they are taking from the same aquifier. Their well yeilds were very good.
 

Ted M

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Craigpump:
In post 17 above you mention a Goulds pump (1/3 HP) with Franklin motor.

In another posting I mentioned that I have this same pump. In the ground 35 years.

What did you replace it with?
Thank you.

Ted
Northern NH
 
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