Help isolate SQE/CU301 problem

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treetops

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Installation is a 6 year old 22SQE15-220 with a CU301 (set at 60psi) and 2gal tank and 180ft well.
Main use is to supply 10gpm to my heat pump for heat and a/c plus normal household water use and some garden irrigation.
Originally the well was rated at 40 gpm and pump would provide 18 -20 gpm continuous. Done so over the last 15 years using this pump plus an earlier pump)

Lately the pump will not yield more than about 11 gpm at full constant pressure of 60psi.
I have let the well recover (pump off) overnite but in AM pump is immediately limited to 11 gpm. So I don't believe there is a shortage of water in the well. (In the past the water level has been at 40ft down in this 180ft well. Havent measured it recently). Pump is also running for hours to heat house.

The CU301 lites are all normal with the max speed lite on solid at 10+ gpm and 60psi. Sensor is clean and exactly at specified 5.8vdc at 60 psi. Pump drain is approx. 7-8A at max speed (measured on 60A scale of clip-on meter..so +/- couple of amp accuracy).

Here are some measurements I made:
Set 40psi & 8gpm = 4Amps, Actual pressure 38psi, (max speed lite off)
Set 40psi & 9gpm = 6-7A, 37psi, (max speed lite off)
Set 40psi & 10 -11gpm = 7 - 8A, 30psi, (max speed lite on)
Set 60psi & 9gpm = 7A, 59psi, (max speed lite off)
Set 60psi & 10gpm = 7-8A, 58psi, (max speed lite on)
Set 60psi & 10 - 11gpm = 7 -8 psi, 43psi, (max speed lite on)
Set 70psi & 10gpm = 7 - 8A, 59psi, (max speed lite on)

So it appears that the maximum flow rate is just above 10gpm at any pressure setting, and that the CU301 is changing to max speed to get from a lower flow to the 10gpm.
My interpretation of all this is that the well has enough water, the CU301 is operating OK, and that something is restricting the pump output (pump clogged, faulty, etc?)

Does anyone agree with this conclusion or suggest other possibilities?
Do I need to do any more to isolate the problem to the pump or the CU301?
I would love to have your input before deciding to have the pump guy in to pull the pump......its winter here!
Thank you!
 

Valveman

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A regular submersible pump spins 3450 RPM. Those SQ/SQEs spin 10,600 RPM. So it could have just broken a shaft or spun off an impeller or something. Or it could be that the electronics in the motor or in the CU301 control are not really letting the pump go to full speed as it looks. A 1.5 HP should pull about 11 amps, so something is wrong.

Those pumps will run without the CU301 controller. I would bypass the CU301 and just hook the pump directly to 230V. If it is still not pumping enough water the pump is damaged or restricted as you think. If the pump delivers more water and pulls close to 11 amps, the CU301 controller or pressure transducer is the problem.
 

treetops

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Thanks Valveman!
I assume by the pressure transducer you are referring to the sensor feeding the CU301?
Will try w/o the CVU301.
Don't have a pressure switch at the moment so I will keep an eye to not let the pressure build too high when I power up the pump. Anything else I should be careful about when doing this....other than the 220V?
 

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You can just run it manually with the breaker as a switch if you are careful not to let the pressure go to high. At least that will let you know if the pump or the CU301 controller is the problem.
 

treetops

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If controlled by a regular pressure switch without the CU301, will this SQE pump run continuously at max speed at full 220v? Will the speed vary as the demand or pressure changes? I assume the amp draw will vary with demand or pressure?

If the CU301 proves to be defective, I will definitely look into converting to a CSV setup...especially with a heat pump which on real cold days stays on for hours. The last pump that failed was just on a pressure switch and a large tank. It cycled every 5 minutes with the heat pump on. Its a wonder it lasted 6 years!!
 

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Since it is a 22 GPM pump, if you remove the CU301 speed controller and use just a 40/60 pressure switch, the pump will always be spinning at full speed, pumping 22 GPM, and drawing maximum amperage. But it won't be on for long. You probably have a 2.2 gal tank that only holds about 1/2 gallon of water. So the 22 GPM pump will fill the 1/2 gallon in the tank in a couple of seconds, the pressure will hit 60, and the pump will shut off. Then the heat pump or faucet will use the 1/2 gallon out of the tank in a couple of seconds, the pressure will drop to 40, and the pressure switch will turn the pump back on. The pump will cycle on/off rapidly until death.

Adding a CSV before the pressure tank will maintain a steady 50 PSI for as long as any water is being used. The CSV varies the flow to match the usage, never lets the pressure reach 60, so the pressure switch can't shut the pump off. The pump is always spinning at max speed, but the amperage is still reduced with the flow rate, the same as it is when using a variable speed controller.
 

treetops

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Ok, speed stays max but amps vary.
Would definitely use a CSV with pressure switch.
I would like to maintain 60 -65 psi (after allowing for falloff) with up to 15gpm. Would I set the pressure switch at 45/65? I looked at the various CSV's and could not figure out which I need for this application: CSV1A, CSW1W, or CSV 2W, or non of above. Would you have a recommendation?
 

Reach4

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60 PSI is 138.25 feet of head. Maybe your water level falls to 170 or 180 feet below your pressure switch/gauge. That might result in what you are seeing with a new pump
huge7.PNG
. Or maybe the pump has degraded a tad.
 

Valveman

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Ok, speed stays max but amps vary.
Would definitely use a CSV with pressure switch.
I would like to maintain 60 -65 psi (after allowing for falloff) with up to 15gpm. Would I set the pressure switch at 45/65? I looked at the various CSV's and could not figure out which I need for this application: CSV1A, CSW1W, or CSV 2W, or non of above. Would you have a recommendation?

To set the CSV1A that you need at 60 PSI, the pressure switch should be set at 50/70.
 

treetops

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Valveman:
So I need a CSV1A and a normal garden variety pressure switch set at 50/70 installed with my 4.5 gallon tank. This would replace the CU301 and be suitable for my 60-65psi 18gpm application (10gpm for heat pump and 7-8gpm for house/or irrigation) assuming well and pump were OK. Is this correct?

BTW I re-measured the pump amp drain with a very accurate meter and it read 9.9A at max speed. Manufacturers spec is 9.8A at full load. So it looks like CU301 is supplying correct power.
Will also try with CU301 disconnected.

Reach4:
I agree that with water down at pump level (180ft) this pump would max out at about 10gpm per spec at 60psi.
But I doubt the water level is that low.
The static level last time I checked was about 45 ft below grade. Well is 200ft deep. Pump at 180ft.
The 45ft level is at the same level as the water in a large lake only 100ft away. Mind you ground is all granite but it stands to reason that the static level should be close to lake level especially after letting well recover over 24 hours. It is very, very difficult to see how the static water level could be at or near the level of the pump, at least when pump first starts.
Assuming that the static level for some reason is half way down to the pump at 120ft after overnite recovery. By my calculation, the 6" diameter well would have about 90gallons between the 120ft static level and the 180ft pump level. Therefor, assuming the pump is OK, I should get 15+gpm at least for a minute or 2 until the draw down reduces it back to its current 10gpm max. But that does not happen. The flow is immediately limited to 10gpm.
So what gives! Pump defective or a very big well problem!
I am far from being very knowledgeable in these areas. So would very much any help.

Thank you both for your responses!
 

Valveman

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Valveman:
So I need a CSV1A and a normal garden variety pressure switch set at 50/70 installed with my 4.5 gallon tank. This would replace the CU301 and be suitable for my 60-65psi 18gpm application (10gpm for heat pump and 7-8gpm for house/or irrigation) assuming well and pump were OK. Is this correct?

Yes that is correct.

BTW I re-measured the pump amp drain with a very accurate meter and it read 9.9A at max speed. Manufacturers spec is 9.8A at full load. So it looks like CU301 is supplying correct power.
Will also try with CU301 disconnected.

If the pump is drawing max amperage it is usually pumping max volume. You may have a hole in the well pipe and some of your water is just recirculating.
 

treetops

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Could it not be that the pump section is damaged....worn impellers, etc.?

Well is drilled thru solid rock, mostly granite, so I don't have a problem with sand or dirt. However several weeks ago I noticed an in-rush of "dirty" water into the sink for a minute or so. Also the taste of the water became weird and did not taste good. After a week the taste became normal. Water has always had an excellent "taste".
So possibly a new vein opened and sediment damaged the impellers?? However I cant say that is when I first noticed less water flow.
I'm reaching at straws now!
 

Valveman

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A damaged pump end will usually either pull high or low amps. If the impellers are sticking it pulls high amps. If the impellers are worn out it will pull low amps. It is very rare for a pump to pull the correct full load amperage and not be pumping maximum flow.
 

Craigpump

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image.jpg


Here's a pic of what grit did to a 4" Grundfos, ate it right up.
 

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treetops

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Finally got around to running the pump without the cu301 controller.
No improvement . Exactly the same max flow at 10 - 11 gpm.
And can run pump at max continuous fro hours so don't think its a well issue.
Next step: bring in the pump guy.
Am anxious to see why an expensive pump as this fails after 6 years and after having run on this expensive controller!
 

Reach4

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Have you backed up your important files on your disk drive lately? At full speed, that pump probably rotates faster than your disk drive. No experience with the pumps myself.

SQE standard warranty is 2 years with a 5 year optional coverage.
 

treetops

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Tested without cu301 controller ( direct 22ov to pump, no pressure switch) and all taps, heat pump, etc. turned off (e.g. no flow), pressure went up over 100 psi before I turned it off. Almost blew my pressure relief valve!

With taps, heat pump on, max flow I could get was about 11gpm and pressure stabilized at about 60psi.
Same results I get with the cu301 controller in the loop.

Does this tell you anything about the pump or well?
 

Valveman

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Pumping 11 GPM at 60 PSI means that pump is lifting from about 160'. Sounds like your pumping water level is at 160', not 40'. If that is the case the pump is doing as much as it can.
 
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