Air in lines...why?

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The Amazing Dam

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Okay on my way back home. Just left supply house. Got some good advice from the counter.and the good news is they have the three-quarter Horse power pumps in house in all different Gpms I'm looking at a 12 gallon Myersthree-quarter horsepower for 370.

On a side note, a 5 gallon is $470, and 8 gallon is $400, and a 12 gallon is &370. That is backwards from conventional wisdom. Apparently it takes a lot to get them geared to a slower gallon flow rate and that drives the price up on those.
 
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Reach4

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On a side note, a 5 gallon is 470, and 8 gallon is 400, and a 12 gallon is 370. That is backwards from conventional wisdom. Apparently it takes a lot to get her the palms down to a slower gallon flow rate and that drives the price up on those.
A 5 GPM pump would have more stages than a 12 GPM pump. A 5 GPM pump is optimized for deeper wells, and a 12 GPM of a given power is optimized for shallower wells. A 12 GPM could not generate as much head as an 8 GPM. Note that 50 PSI water pressure corresponds to 115 feet of head (.434 ft of head/PSI). So if you look at head vs GPM pump curves, you want to take that into account.

Edit: http://www.aquascience.net/resource/literature/Myers_Predator_Plus_Specifications.pdf has curves for one of the Meyers submersible pumps. Others would be similar. Pumps are more efficient when you are not at the extremes of the curve, although there is not that much pump power money involved anyway.

I see below that your removal of your excess check valve has had a good effect. That is very good. You might monitor your pressure gauge. If it drops slowly, that would imply you have a small leak in your well bore, or your check valve at the pump had a small leak, or that you have an old bleeder orifice that was used with the old pressure tank. No big deal up to a point. The pump would run occasionally to compensate. If it is the check valve, that might improve on its own anyway, now that you have gotten rid of the upper check valve.
 
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The Amazing Dam

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I eliminated the check valve at the well tank and I eliminated the check valve at the wellhead. I opened on my taps to get the air out of the lines. Then I let the water stay off for about 10 minutes, giving it a chance to drain down, (if that's where hit wants to go.) I was not getting that air problem. I will try again in a half hour to see if the condition presents itself again. By no means do I think I am out of the woods on this issue, but if I can buy myself some time and make it through Thanksgiving, perhaps I'll tackle the well pump on Saturday.
 

LLigetfa

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I see below that your removal of your excess check valve has had a good effect. That is very good. You might monitor your pressure gauge. If it drops slowly, that would imply you have a small leak in your well bore, or your check valve at the pump had a small leak, or that you have an old bleeder orifice that was used with the old pressure tank...
If there is a bleeder, then that could very well have been where the air was entering. Normally the air would enter via a snifter but sometimes two bleeders are spaced one above the other so the top one acts as a snifter.

The bleeder is designed to leak only a tiny amount under pressure and to open up and leak more when the pressure drops. As I mentioned earlier, a checkvalve holds best when it has pressure against it so now that the two others were removed, the one at the pump may be fine.

I often wonder why people think that more is better WRT checkvalves.
 

The Amazing Dam

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Waited one hour.
Symptoms not present.
Hurrah (for now).
Thanks all.
I'm sure that I will revisit this thread when it's time for me to change that well pump.
 

Craigpump

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We see casing extensions done with PVC and Ferncos, some of the cheaper guys heat up the PVC and shove it over the steel pipe! I know, hard to believe....

I like to use a coupling that's welded to the existing casing and then either screw in another piece or weld in another piece of casing. Dresser couplings and a Baker adapters work good too, I just like welding.

A 12 gpm pump will have a short life if it pumps into a wx203.
 

The Amazing Dam

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A 12 gpm pump will have a short life if it pumps into a wx203.

With that in mind, I'd absolutely like to choose the right pump, even if it means installing a bigger well tank.
(Currently 2 residents and 4.5 baths.)

Help me diagnose this.
After I got my check valves eliminated, and everything else "air free", I hooked up a hose to the "upstream" side of the tank tee. I let it run for a few minutes and then fetched a pail for water. I filled 4.5 gal in 30 sec. (9GPM). That is the pump from likely over 20 years ago that I have no info on until I pull it...and it's been running into wx203 since 05/09.

Does this say anything?
And
Is that where I should be measuring my flow?
 

Reach4

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During the test that you described, was the pressure tank still connected? If so, it may have been contributing water. If not, then then your test would be a reasonable measure of what the current pump does.

What I would do is to run water until the pump kicks on. Immediately stop using water. Measure the time from when the pump turns on until it turns off. A minute or more is desirable.

I hope you get another 10 or 20 years out of your pump.

Craigpump: when I got my casing extended, they just butt-welded the steel pipe-- no coupling.
 

Craigpump

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9 gpm tells me it's a good strong 7 or 8 gpm pump in a well with a high water level.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, I personally prefer using a coupling so I can make two passes on the weld joints.
 

The Amazing Dam

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So after I got everything functional, I went back and loosened the qty 4, 3/4" head bolts on the sanitary cap and tried yanking up on it. (Yeah yeah I know, there was plumbing and electrical attached to it...what a dum dum). But anyway, I was unable to budge it. I didn't want to overloosten them and lose the (what I assume are) nuts on the backside. I was trying to figure out whether I had galvanized pipe or plastic pipe going down to the pump. Just guessing what tools that I might need to change the pump when the time is right.

This brings up two questions.

1. is there a trick to loosen that cap whenthe time comes?
2. Does the well pipe pass through that cap or is it attached to the cap (acting like a coupling).

Anybody else notice the dead rabbit that was in the pit. I didn't even notice it when I took the picture. It wasn't until I was driving on the road that I looked at the picture that I saw something in there that looked like a rabbit.

Also, any thoughts on the 2 abandoned vertical pipes off to the left?
 

Craigpump

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Those well seals are in 5 pieces, two upper plates, 1 rubber disc and two lower plates. If you look at the seal carefully, you can see a parting line where the two top plates meet. From the side, the seal looks like a sandwich with the rubber disc in the center.

NEVER REMOVE THE BOLTS, JUST LOOSEN THEM OR THE BOTTOM PLATES CAN FALL DOWN THE HOLE AND TRAP THE PUMP.

The reasons you can't move it are
1) the rubber bonds to the steel casing
2) it's heavy
3) the bolts aren't loose enough

To remove the seal
1) back off the bolts a few turns, use a 3/4" socket designed for damaged bolts, NAPA has them
2) smack the head of the bolts with a hammer to loosen the bond between the plates and rubber disc
3) I like a hook bar or crow bar. Drive it in between the top edge of the casing and flange on the seal. Work the bar side to side like a windshield wiper and back and forth on the heel or hook on the bar prying up the seal.
4) eventually it will come loose, we did one today that was installed in 1976. It took about 15 minutes

The dead rabbit is yet another reason to raise the casing.

My guess is that those two pipes are left over from an old jet pump system.
 

The Amazing Dam

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[QUOTE="LLigetfa, post: 439137, member: 43886"

I often wonder why people think that more is better WRT checkvalves.[/QUOTE]

Truth be told, I installed the check valve at the well head, because there was one there when I bought the property. You can see the old one on the ground. I left it there "for later reference". It's kinda rolled over. You can see but it has a stem or 2 on the side of it from what I recall.

I didn't know about the CV at the pump, and the one at the tank may have been recommended. I don't recall why I would have put a 1" one on since they cost more than a 3/4" and I have a 3/4" line coming in.

Update: All is still well. Now I'm thinking that I'll wait until I have an issue to do anything else...typical.
 

The Amazing Dam

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Further update:
Using pleated filter instead of carbon filter. Enjoying best water pressure ever. Haven't had a hiccup anywhere.

Decided to time my "pump on" time.
I ran the hose for about 4 minutes, with nothing else on in the house. When I shut the hose, I started a stopwatch and ran it until the pump stopped.

It was 2 min 4 sec.
 

Valveman

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Those extra check valves should never have been installed in the first place. The check valve on the pump is the only one you need. Now if the pressure doesn't drop when no one is using water you are good to go.
 
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