Carlyle II post installation issues/questions

[bamagirl92]

I had my plumber order the Carlyle II. They do not normally carry Toto so they special ordered it. Did NOT tell me it was nonrefundable, but more on why that is important in a minute.

They came Fri to install and discovered that the skirt base interfered with the water line and valve. They said the toilet wouldn't fit unless they moved the water line/valve over to clear the skirt. I have mosaic tiled wall so going inside wall wasn't an option. They said the toilet was not returnable so my only option was to agree to make it work AND this extra work would be another $175 in labor.

They had a field supervisor come out to do the job. He spent 5 HOURS sawing, soldering and working on that pipe to angle it to fit. I could hear the saw putting a lot of distress on the pipes in the wall.

Here are my issues I need your advice on:

1. Is there any internal structural damage to the pipes in the wall I might not see from all that sawing and tugging on the external pipe? Today I find on this site that there is something you guys recommend called a "skirted toilet kit" by dahlvalve. Is that something my plumber should have known about and could have been an easy solution versus all this labor? Should I have them come out and replace the work already done with this dahlvalve?

2. Am I at risk of this current pipe configuration leaking in 5 years because it was lots of cutting and soldering?

3. The water supply line they used is not the braided metal lines like on my other toto. This looks like a thick "plastic". What is that and is it as good as braided metal lines?

4. The toilet seems to be put in slightly crooked meaning the tank's left side is maybe an inch from the wall where the right side is maybe 1.5 inches so it looks "off". Is it too picky to have expected them to put it in straight?

5. The putty or caulk whatever they use to seal the toilet in place is ALL OVER my Travertine natural stone tile floor. Can that be removed and how? Should a plumber leave the job looking like this?

Please let me know what you guys think. Am I wrong to call them and make them come out and fix my issues, the big and small ones? Also that plastic water line? Is that good or bad?

Thanks sorry so long... FYI the total price for toilet and the extra labor was about $1,000 so I am not happy.

cindy

 

[Reach4]

4. The toilet seems to be put in slightly crooked meaning the tank's left side is maybe an inch from the wall where the right side is maybe 1.5 inches so it looks "off". Is it too picky to have expected them to put it in straight?

5. The putty or caulk whatever they use to seal the toilet in place is ALL OVER my Travertine natural stone tile floor. Can that be removed and how? Should a plumber leave the job looking like this?

The angle of the toilet is largely determined by the caulk/sealant. Only the back part of the toilet is held with screws. Those screws behind the velcroed panels allow some variation in angle. It may be that the screws are at the limits of their range, but it may be that the old sealant could be removed. The front of the toilet would be moved to the side, and new sealant installed. Some caulk/sealant is easier to remove than others. Have you tried scrubbing away some of the excess? There is no excuse for the sealant ending up "all over" your travertine.

I am not a pro. But based on what you say, I think that should be reworked. I suggest you consider posting a picture or two. The one thing that could affect things is if the midpoint of the toilet is equidistant to a nearby wall. That could be the case if the back and side walls were not at right angles. So in that case, it is possible that is why the angle to the wall occurred. It is likely that was just unskilled work.

If you get that toilet re-set, you might want to also check for the rim being level -- particularly left-right. If it is not, shims should be used to get things level before the new caulk-seal gets applied. Terry likes Polyseamseal for this job, and it worked very nicely when I used it. It is not so strong as silicone (which might pull tiles when you have to lift the toilet), but it is stronger than caulk. I am thinking that doing this would involve cutting the caulk/sealant with a utility knife or single edge razor blade. I have minimal experience, but I did lift some small floor tiles when pulling a toilet that had been in place for many years. In retrospect I would have used the single edge razor blade to cut the caulk/seal.


I have no insight on the solid supply line or the supply line plumbing.

 

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[bamagirl92]

thank you! Here are some pics. I just spoke to the owner he is basically making excuses for everything but agreeing to send the guy back to clean.

He is saying the only "better" way would be to rip out the wall and move the pipe over. I asked him if he ever heard of Dahl mini-ball valve and he didn't. He said this flex tube is good quality (is he correct)? Also he said they can't reattach the circle cap over the pipe from the wall so there is just a big hole there behind the toilet you can see in one of the pics. How can I tell if I can fit a Dahl valve kit I may just higher a different plumber to fit this whole thing.

Can you see the copper pipe soldered in two areas, they insist this is fine long term.

 

[Reach4]

Ahh... It looks like the angle was to clear the copper fittings in this picture:

 

[bamagirl92]

Does this work look good in your opinion? Is this going to stand test of time? If anyone knows about that Dahl valve skirt kit and if that would work in this case let me know.

 

[WJcandee]

Soldering on a 90-degree angle and some copper is a perfectly-acceptable solution. The materials used, including the new stop valve, seem to be very old-timey but appear (and all that is, appear) to this non-pro eye to be good quality. Yeah, the Dahl thing probably would have worked, but this is the plumber doing the same thing with copper that the Dahl thing would have done, except that you can get the Dahl with an upturned outlet so the extra 90 isn't necessary. But it looks basically workmanlike. I might have liked another 1/2" of copper so the contraption isn't pressing against porcelain, but, hey, this works. If you don't like that hose, which might not be to code in some jurisdictions, you can get a braided one at Home Depot and just install it yourself in 30 seconds. The good news is that the "old junk car" thing will set in after a week or so. (You know, the first day your neighbor puts an old car up on blocks in the driveway, it looks hideous and one is outraged. A week later, one doesn't even notice it... And your guests probably won't see it.)

It's an expensive toilet. Part of the reason you picked it was aesthetic. You are absolutely-entitled to have it installed parallel to the wall. They should be able to fix that. Pulling the toilet up is no big deal, because it just slides into the adapter which they mounted onto the floor. If there is something in the way on one side, then they should just have the other side be equally-distant from the wall. Tools required: measuring tape.

 

[Terry]

It was too close for the Dahl valve to work.
You're dealing with a less than 12" rough there, in addition to the stubout from the wall being behind the bowl.

We carry a 10" and a 14" Unift in the van with us. We sometimes use the 14" and move the bowl away from the wall.
Given what you had to work with, he did what he could.
Since we have installed hundreds of these, we know to ask questions before we get to the job.
And yes, we have plenty of options on the truck, but mainly because we do this type of thing.
I would not expect most plumbers to know these things. I think you need a glass of wine.
the pipe will be fine.

 

[Reach4]

You could consider painting the pipe regardless... Flat black might be good, or maybe you could find something to blend with the tiles better.

If there is clearance between the toilet and the pipe, you/they could reposition the toilet a bit to square it up. If it is touching, then there is a good chance not. Presuming the person who attached the Unifit adapter did not have access to a 14 inch version, he should have mounted the Unifit as far as possible away from the wall as he could. Were it me (just a homeowner who has installed 1 Unifit toilet, I would have drilled or filed the adapter to move the toilet far enough away from the wall to square up the toilet making sure that the exit for the Unifit was within the horizontal dimensions of the closet flange hole.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....baseboard-and-shoe-molding.58080/#post-430398

When I installed my toilet, the rough in was between the 12 and 14 inch distances. While I had the 14 handy, I opted to stretch the 12 by actually drilling new holes for the flange bolts, and I reinforced this with two new holes, screws and washers. I was very careful that the hole in the Unifit output did not cover non-hole space in my flange. This is probably something that a pro being paid would worry about being criticized for. But I got my toilet leak free while minimizing the projection into the room. The clearance to the wall and shoe molding ended up at about 3/8 inch. I did not have the centered supply line problem. I took many hours, and I could not have afforded it if I were paying myself $15 per hour. I work slowly.

 

[Jadnashua]

If I had to guess, I'd guess that that pipe between the valve and the toilet is pex, which should be fine. It would take all of maybe 5-minutes to change it to something else if you wished. Some people prefer a solid pipe rather than a flexible one.

They do make a split escutcheon plate that you could put over the hole in the wall where the pipe comes out...it has a hinge on it so you can open it up to get around the pipe, then close it back up.