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FullySprinklered

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I was just reading about the new energy efficiency standards which go into effect next year. Some of us grunts just might need a 50cent seminar on what that means on how we deal with new installs of water heaters etc. I personally haven't done a condensing w/h or a heat pump w/h. It's never come up, but it looks like it's going to next year. Thanks.
 

Jadnashua

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Not sure how they may differ from condensing boilers, but those have been around for a number of years. I see a lot more condensate pumps, and people messing up the vent systems in our future. SOme HVAC people can't run pvc pipe well, some plumbers, can't wire things properly. The people who put my condensing boiler (even though they'd done some before), installed the vent wrong, and on a really cold day, it closed itself up (the inlet)with frozen condensate. They didn't really need to read, because the picture of how to run it in the instructions was quite clear. It plugged up the inlet which shut the boiler down. Could have been ugly if I'd been away in the middle of winter with no heat in the condo. So much for pros...when legal, I try to do things like this myself, but living in a row townhouse, the rules prevent most stuff.

Got a link to the new requirements? Probably good to read up about them.
 

FullySprinklered

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Not sure how they may differ from condensing boilers, but those have been around for a number of years. I see a lot more condensate pumps, and people messing up the vent systems in our future. SOme HVAC people can't run pvc pipe well, some plumbers, can't wire things properly. The people who put my condensing boiler (even though they'd done some before), installed the vent wrong, and on a really cold day, it closed itself up (the inlet)with frozen condensate. They didn't really need to read, because the picture of how to run it in the instructions was quite clear. It plugged up the inlet which shut the boiler down. Could have been ugly if I'd been away in the middle of winter with no heat in the condo. So much for pros...when legal, I try to do things like this myself, but living in a row townhouse, the rules prevent most stuff.

Got a link to the new requirements? Probably good to read up about them.
I don't want to be those guys. I'll be researching all that in the coming weeks and months and will try to be prepared for whatever comes up. I assume there are or will be You-Tube videos or some such, on the latest generation of appliances, and I'm not really too worried about the learning curve on the actual install.
I am concerned about the interchangeability of the newer units with the older ones; will the heat loss be addressed by increasing the thickness of the insulation, therefore the size of the tank?
Will the customer be stuck with higher labor and materials costs for what is already one of the more expensive plumbing service calls?
 

Jadnashua

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Most new WH's are taller than those of old because of the burner designs (at least on gas appliances). It is somewhat rare when a new WH can go into exactly the same place as an older one, those in electric have the highest possibility, but even then, not always possible - the wiring may reach, but you may need to move the supply lines. Where allowed, flexible water lines can make that easier.

A condensing unit will use a two pipe system that can either be two actual separate pipes (and often starts out that way, regardless), that may terminate in a concentric design. The distances and pitch of the lines becomes much more important, since the condensate must be able to flow back towards the unit, where there's an outlet to collect it. THen, since the inlets are often lower, you have to be careful about where they are located, and what else is around (for example, the inlet shouldn't be near a dryer outlet and the exhaust has some specific offset distances from operable windows and doors). Those lines can't be too long, either.

The good thing, is that most installation instructions actually are pretty good. The bad thing is most don't read them and, they are different. Not that people don't install the existing ones properly all of the time.
 
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