Is a steam room considered as a submerged application? What a debate

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ShowerDude

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Having a basic knowledge and backround in chemical MFG. I always look at msds sheets. you still dont get the whole picture but it helps to understand the products composition at its core. and the safety hazards of course.


Heres a few snippets from The 255 Multimax MSDS:


Form
F 7.3.29
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Rev:
B
Page:
1 of 4
Date:
01/25/07
-------------------------------------------- I. PRODUCT
IDENTIFI
CATION -------------------------------
TRADE NAME (as labeled): LATICRETE
®
255 Multimax
CHEMICAL FAMILY:
MANUFACTURER'S NAME:
LATICRETE INTERNATIONAL, INC.
1 Laticrete Park, N.
Bethany, CT 06524-3423 USA
Phone number for additional information: (203) 393-0010
Date prepared or revised: 03/12
Name of preparer: Raji Kompalli
--------------------------------------------
II. HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS
----------------------------
CHEMICAL NAMES
CAS
NUMBERS
PERCENT
ACGIH TLV
OSHA PEL
OTHER
(SPECIFY)
Portland Cement 65997-15-1 48-55% 10 mg/m³ 50 mppcf N/A
Silica Sand 14808-60-7 14-30 % N/A .1 mg/m³ N/A
Blast furnace slag 65996-69-
2 0-25% N/A N/A N/A
Fly Ash 68131-74-8 0-17% N/A N/A N/A
N/A = Not applicable or available



HERE: You can see it is stated as insoluble in water? there is no data for Vapor density, melting point,vapor pressure???

------------------------------------------------
IX. PHYSICAL PROPERTIES
----------------------------
Vapor density (air=1): N/A Melting point or range,

F: N/A
Specific gravity: 1.28
Boiling point or range,

F: N/A
Solubility in water: insoluble
Evaporation rate (butyl acetate = 1): N/A
Vapor pressure, mmHg at 20

C: N/A
Appearance and odor: grey or white odorless powder
HOW TO DETECT THIS SUBSTANCE (warning properti
es of substance as a gas, vapor, dust, or
mist):
---------------------------------------------------- X. REAC
TIVITY
DATA -----------------------------------------------
Stability: x Stable Uns
table
Conditions to avoid: Keep dry until used.
Incompatibility (materials to avoid): N/A


I like that last line ....... incompatibility materials to avoid N/A ???!

Now if you guys take a look at 254 MSDS youll see that other than the haz. ingredients being 2 components, the physical properties data is the same? again no vapor density, vapor pressure, melting point info?.

trade secrets omitted? not required to fill in those categories? it leaves me to think its the added ingredients that make 254 the only mortar for steam and we will never get an honest answer..........???? c'mon?



FYI John, this is where you look when you need to create a hazmat bill of lading or a haz materials diamond when shipping any all chemicals as required by the DOT, OSHA, EPA, federal motor carrier guidleines etc. Its worse than tiling a kerdi shower the shipping buisness. !!!!!!!. LOL!!! msds for gel heat packs??? LOL
 
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ShowerDude

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RSCB , nice angle view point . :)

It is insoluble , but it doesn't mean it is not absorptive .


if insoluble ? can it still re emulsify? leaching looks like re emulsification of at least the latex to me? so 255 must absorb water and the steam pressure forces out some of the" Mystery" additives we arent privy to.

its insoluble but cant be submerged LOL....... Oh man im feeling a corporate migraine comin on........
 

Jadnashua

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Dissolving and softening in the presence of liquid water are not the same thing. Cured cement does not dissolve (well, they call water the universal solvent, but that's more on a geological timeframe than we'd experience!). Prior to full cure, some latex modifiers can be washed away leaving your partially cured cement crystals with large gaps between them, and much reduced strength. It could be enough so you end up with them not making much of any bond.
 

Eurob

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if insoluble ? can it still re emulsify? leaching looks like re emulsification of at least the latex to me? so 255 must absorb water and the steam pressure forces out some of the" Mystery" additives we arent privy to.

its insoluble but cant be submerged LOL....... Oh man im feeling a corporate migraine comin on........


Which 255 you used ? I just got the new & improved 255 .

Mortars tests 002.jpg



Just don't ask me to submerge it ........ the drywall will go mushy mushy ;)
 

JohnfrWhipple

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New and Improved....

You got me.

I like the Old and Standard myself.....

If the wheel ain't broke....


reinvent-the-wheel.jpg


Features include:

  • New Anti Roll Feature.
  • Improved stand by mode.
  • Easier to get on and off.
  • New Ultra Loud Rolling Sound
 

Eurob

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Your -- not a picture of early years -- technology is expired . :oops::D

It is like the songs ..... but remixed

:)
 

Eurob

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I don't know , RSCB . I was wondering if your bag had the same logo on it -- New and Improved -- .

But we can always compare pictures of the bags . :)
 

ShowerDude

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I don't know , RSCB . I was wondering if your bag had the same logo on it -- New and Improved -- .

But we can always compare pictures of the bags . :)


IMG_1699.JPG



I warn every and anyone "DO NOT USE THIS PRODUCT IN A SUBMERGED APPLICATION"............

call Laticrete and ask them to define the term SUBMERGED ???? to me it means a pool or underwater? To them its a vague term they intentionally blur the lines with.

Before using their Mortars in a shower application, specifically a steam shower call to get approval and document who you spoke to, maybe ask for a typed transcription as well.

Once you install a product it is you that will have made the "installer error" even if their field rep gave it to you to install.........it is you the installer that will have to cover the expense to repair.

If you do call A MFG for tech support. Document your call, ask that it is recorded and get the full name and time and location of who you spoke to, You may get different Advice/opinions that very from tech support from within the same company such as I did with laticrete, but i cant prove it because they hold the key to the phone recordings if there even was one. YOU NEED TO EQUALLY DOCUMENT it for your own sake.

When you do have a problem the first thing they will ask is "Who did you talk to" "Who said that?'"??? etc.

IN Short : Make the MFG accountable to their slogans and claims. It is a game of big business and you must play to that level.

There is no REAL warranty that will ever pay money to you or your client. these False wrrty's are full of loopholes , jargon, and processes designed to deter you, and re- assure the BIG business never has to pay out A penny or admit to a problematic product.

Rather they will tie up your time with forms to fill out and emails and never really do anything but take up your time while gathering documentation to further corroberate their case against you. all while they try try to sell you more product.

I challemge ANYONE to show us one actual admittance of product failure and a payout on a damage claim.

SHOW us right here the proof in writing.????
 
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Eurob

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I've seen that photo on a UK blog .... LIKE was the only comment -- pretty strange -- .

It has the same logo as my bag , RSCB . So sorry to hear about the so fragile and broken bridge of trust .
 

JohnfrWhipple

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Thanks for the heads up. I won't buy any 255.

I think you have shared a valuable lesson. Karma will bit you in the ass. Expect some unexpected fortune next year......
 

JohnfrWhipple

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Just got caught up on your tests Roberto.

You are going to push a lot of buttons with your results. Careful you do not give the other mods a chance to ban you. Lots of times I have seen posts disappear from that forum you are writing on.

I have also noticed that the thread titles can change or split.

Keep it safe and keep reporting the facts as you see them....

Do a goggle search now with your thread. Do a few screen shots of the findings. I'm pretty sure in 3 months time it will be lost. Not sure how this happens but I have seen it myself happen before. I believe there is code that can be added to a discussion that prevents it from being searched and ranked. When this is done the only people finding your work is the people that hunt for it.

It would be nice if you clone the info here as well. Terry doesn't mess around with this type of thing....
 

Eurob

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My writing is all about knowledge -- give and receive -- , that's all . I never paid attention to the tests -- closely -- before , but now it seems that it is something we have to deal with .

What I have is honesty , care about the profession ( craft ) , long term benefits, etc.... if you take them away .....what's left ?

I do believe you , John , but I am not looking at them in this kind of way . I also did notice how easy is to twist a thread and close it .

If those kind of codes are in place , in use or else , then it can explain other'' things '' .
 
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Jadnashua

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Laticrete's 255 is an anti-sag, modified mortar, primarily designed for tiling a wall where anti-sag is a big benefit to you. As a result, it has some additives in it that are not present in their other mortars. They consider 254 their premier mortar., and 255 one of their specialty mortars based on the workshop I just got home from this afternoon. In their modified line, from good, better, best, it's 252, 253, 254, with increasing capabilities and since those components are expensive, the price also follows. FWIW, many jobs don't need their best, sort of like using premium fuel in a car designed for regular. Spend the money if you want, or need to for that job, though, otherwise, you could save a few bucks.
 

Eurob

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Hey guys , if you want to talk without the ignored one , we can start a conversation .

We don't need an S man or his angle on this .

It seems that he doesn't understand more than the KA at the S . To make it worse , he is going to seminars for more . Wonder why -- a retiree -- they will give him access to internal data .

Who knows ? All you need is a connection , the rest he will tell you all about , no hands on experience .

Stay out of it -- we don't care about the S angle or yours .

Start your own threads and preach the methods you learn , but never use . Good luck .
 

Jadnashua

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Hey guys , if you want to talk without the ignored one , we can start a conversation .

We don't need an S man or his angle on this .

It seems that he doesn't understand more than the KA at the S . To make it worse , he is going to seminars for more . Wonder why -- a retiree -- they will give him access to internal data .

Who knows ? All you need is a connection , the rest he will tell you all about , no hands on experience .

Stay out of it -- we don't care about the S angle or yours .

Start your own threads and preach the methods you learn , but never use . Good luck .
Nowhere in my response was anything related to Schluter or Schluter products. It discussed Laticrete's products and what Laticrete says about them. Get a life.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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Roberto - I have Jim Ignored. I do not see his comments when I view any thread. Just Ignore him. Trust me you will be happier for it. Not to mention save yourself more time.
 
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