Modular home plumbing problem

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Melissa2007B

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We had this UBC ( universal building codes ) modular home put on a lot in late 2004 and have been living here since 2005. Every year or two, the plumbing backs up, and drives us crazy, and we have to pay for a nice rooter guy, who already knows our house because he's been out so many times, like $150 to come out and root it so it will be good for another year or two.

We're in the Denver area and it often happens when the water turns colder, around September or October, and I think I've noticed, when the washing machine is draining.

I had a guy go in the crawl space and try to figure it out, a few years ago, but it's difficult because the bottom of the house is still covered in insulation and plastic sheeting, as if it was to be put down on a mobile home base, instead of a foundation like we did. But he sort of told me how to sketch the following diagram, which I did in AutoCAD, because I basically know it and have an old version, and did a drawing of the house anyway, before it was build, so I could plan things.

That guy told me that appears that the U shaped section on the center right, was originally supposed to exit to the sewer, IF it had been put on a mobile home base, but instead, it exits all the way at the bottom there.

But he really thought the clog may be happening where that bottom bathroom exits into the main line at a 45 degree angle, instead of a curve?

But Saturday, it was like a sewer backup, all of a sudden. I heard sounds like a rapid poing..poing..poing..poing.. and then all 3 toilets went up to the top, all at once ( this was while the washer was draining, if I recall - no one was using the bathrooms ), AND my tub, at the top end there, sort of exploded black stuff all over the bottom. All 3 toilets stayed at the top for about 10 minutes, then they all drained at once and worked after that, so we thought everything was OK.

Then Saturday night, I was showering in that top bath, and heard glug glug glug in the toilet next to me, and it went up, the next time I flushed it. So I was about to call the snake guy, but it went down in awhile, and everything was working again, until this morning, when that same toilet went up again and took another 10 minutes to go down and work again. So I have a call in, to the rooter guy now. <SIGH>

So my questions are: Do we need to spend a lot of money to get the plumbing rerouted, to fix this mess? We're low income and just don't have it. And I'm 66 years old and cant get into crawl spaces, and don't know how to do it myself anyway, even if there wasn't plastic sheeting and insulation under there. Very frustrated, in Denver.

PLUMBING%20-%20SEWER%20MESS%20-%20our%20house.jpg
 

Mandingo

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Was it raining heavily when this happened? Do you know if you have a backwater valve installed to protect from backups from the city sewer system? Did the same happen to any of the neighbors?
 

Melissa2007B

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Was it raining heavily when this happened? Do you know if you have a backwater valve installed to protect from backups from the city sewer system? Did the same happen to any of the neighbors?

Was clear - no rain at all. I don't believe we have a backwater valve. I don't know the neighbors, but I called the water department and talked to the sewer people and the guy said they had no reports of anything that day, and to call them the next time it happens, even on weekends - they have an on-call extension.

But what happened Saturday, that started all this, didn't seem like something that could just have happened from a partly clogged pipe, and the washing machine draining at the time. And if it cleared by itself, why wouldn't it stay cleared? This whole mess is just crazy, I've never seen anything like it.
 

Reach4

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The main problem is not where the 4 right-angle turns are, because all three baths-- including the one at the bottom of the drawing-- are getting water when the washer drains. If the problem is where you suspect, the things downstream of the blockage would not get the water rising. The rooter guy is right.

But much more troubling is the description of a backup when you are not using the plumbing. That seems to indicate problem with the city sewer backing up. Your own sewage backing up into your home is bad. But other people's sewage is much worse. Are you in low-lying land compared to your neighbors? Here is the deal: a sewer backing up into a basement is not unusual. A sewer backing up with other people's sewage into an elevated toilet is very unusual. Your thinking that you were not using water is probably wrong, but what you describe is possible if you are low enough and the neighbors are either high enough or they are pressure-pumping into the sewer.

The backwater valve makes sense if it is a sewer backup, but you would probably want something to go along with it such as a pit and a pump. You don't want a simple flapper valve. They reliably leak after a short time.

As a temporary measure, consider an alarm, such as the inexpensive Basement Watchdog unit to monitor for rising water in something where you have seen rising water but that you don't use often. If the alarm goes off, shut down the washer. This is just a cheap workaround. But if it is a sewer backup, and you are not using water, what could you do?

Talk to the sewer department. They would like to help. They can provide experienced advice.

Regarding fixing things right, sometimes the sewer department has a program to pay part of the repairs. Ask them for help and advice. Ideally they will push that new sewer lift station they were planning a little higher in their priorities. Maybe they are not planning a fix. Some cures might cost $8000, and a program might pay up to half. A solution might be a little cheaper, but it might be more expensive. In the list of priorities, this should rank fairly high.
 

Melissa2007B

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I'm not sure if you're saying that the rooter guy is right, OR we had a sewage backup. Or possibly a sewage backup AND a clogged pipe here that was waiting to happen. Every time the rooter guy comes out, he has to snake backwards from the driveway, up into the house, to clear it.

As far as the sewer system, we were told by the builder that we have a good steep drop, from the house into the sewer. ( we're also on a hill and I think it runs down hill from the street too ) BUT I'm guessing that the house plumbing itself, is all horizontal, not aimed downhill until that outside line from the house drops to the sewer.

The water company sewer guy said that a backup could only have been caused by high air pressure somewhere out in the sewer system, which I don't understand how that could happen, at all, or why it would have lasted about 10 minutes and then cleared itself for a couple of days. So it may have precipitated the usual 1-2 year problem in the house plumbing.
 

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As far as the sewer system, we were told by the builder that we have a good steep drop, from the house into the sewer. ( we're also on a hill and I think it runs down hill from the street too ) BUT I'm guessing that the house plumbing itself, is all horizontal, not aimed downhill until that outside line from the house drops to the sewer.

I think you are saying that your home is on higher land than the street area. You are not in a valley, and you are not at the bottom of a hill that has other sewer users up on the hill above you.

In that case I think it is much more likely that the rooter guy is right. If your home is on a hill, that pretty much eliminates the fear that pressurized sewage is making it into your tub and toilets. That would have been an unlikely but scary prospect.

Can you open the cleanout outside? If you have rising water inside, but the cleanout does not spew water when opened, that means that the problem is upstream of the outside cleanout.

Is the inside cleanout at the bottom of your picture easily accessible?
 

Melissa2007B

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I think you are saying that your home is on higher land than the street area. You are not in a valley, and you are not at the bottom of a hill that has other sewer users up on the hill above you.

In that case I think it is much more likely that the rooter guy is right. If your home is on a hill, that pretty much eliminates the fear that pressurized sewage is making it into your tub and toilets. That would have been an unlikely but scary prospect.

Can you open the cleanout outside? If you have rising water inside, but the cleanout does not spew water when opened, that means that the problem is upstream of the outside cleanout.

Is the inside cleanout at the bottom of your picture easily accessible?

Yes it's in the driveway, and no, it has never spewed water when opened. The drop from the driveway to where the line passes the cleanout is about 6 feet.
 

Reach4

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Yes it's in the driveway, and no, it has never spewed water when opened. The drop from the driveway to where the line passes the cleanout is about 6 feet.

I think you are saying that if you remove the cover from the driveway cleanout, you can look down about 6 feet. And that does not have standing water.

Looking during a backup episode would very much confirm that the problem is not the city sewer.

You have two places label cleanout in your picture. I think you are saying that one of those is in the driveway cleanout. Presumably the other is in the crawl space?
 

Melissa2007B

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I think you are saying that if you remove the cover from the driveway cleanout, you can look down about 6 feet. And that does not have standing water. Looking during a backup episode would very much confirm that the problem is not the city sewer.

I've looked, when they were here for rooting, and no standing water, no.

You have two places label cleanout in your picture. I think you are saying that one of those is in the driveway cleanout. Presumably the other is in the crawl space?

Actually they're both in the driveway, and one goes downhill to the sewer, while one goes up into the house, from the same point.
 

Reach4

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That kinda makes your drawing hard to interpret.
 

Melissa2007B

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That kinda makes your drawing hard to interpret.

Oops, I just remembered something about this, and my apologies. The guy who went under the house, said there was one cleanout in the crawl space there. I just forgot that, and to show the ones in the driveway. I updated that drawing - please just see above and hit reload if you need to.
 

hj

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One problem could be that the pipes were sloped to exit where the "U" is. UNLESS the "lower" section in your drawing was "regraded" to slope to the new exit point, which might have been a major problem from your description, that whole section has "backflow" and THAT is what would cause a blockage where the "U" section is, besides the "U" section being a poor idea in the middle of a run. And IF that section was "regraded" why wouldn't they have done it so they did not need the "U" section?
 

Melissa2007B

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One problem could be that the pipes were sloped to exit where the "U" is. UNLESS the "lower" section in your drawing was "regraded" to slope to the new exit point, which might have been a major problem from your description, that whole section has "backflow" and THAT is what would cause a blockage where the "U" section is, besides the "U" section being a poor idea in the middle of a run. And IF that section was "regraded" why wouldn't they have done it so they did not need the "U" section?

This builder who put the house on the lot, was an @SS and a ripoff artist. He didn't do a thing except hook it up to the line, and THAT, illegally. I think he had a plumber from another County sign off, and he did the work himself. PLUS, as I mentioned, all of this is up and under plastic sheeting and insulation. The builder lost his license in this city, right after our job.

Oh, by the way, looking at that drawing again, if I ALWAYS use cold water to wash clothes, and ALWAYS forget to empty the washer lint catcher, could THAT cause an initial clog, right below where the washer line enters the main line? Because this usually starts with me taking a shower and hearing bubbles in the toilet, in the bath at the top end of the drawing there, then it gets worse until that toilet no longer goes down, then it often quickly involves the rest of the house.
 
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DonL

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This builder who put the house on the lot, was an @SS and a ripoff artist. He didn't do a thing except hook it up to the line, and THAT, illegally. I think he had a plumber from another County sign off, and he did the work himself. PLUS, as I mentioned, all of this is up and under plastic sheeting and insulation. The builder lost his license in this city, right after our job.


It may be Slope. Your home may not be properly setting high enough. And will need to be Jacked up.

Water does not flow uphill very well.

A lot of them Fluffy Soft Toilette papers can plug things up Too. I avoid the use of them.


Good Luck on your project.
 

DonL

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That wouldn't explain why it's good for 1-2 years, then does this. Thanks.


If your Foundation settles it could. Or if a Tire went flat. Not sure how they do installs there, but here many are treated like Trailer Homes.

If the plumbing has not been changed, Then why would it be plumbing if it worked for 1-2 years ?

It may just be what is being flushed.


Good Luck.
 

Melissa2007B

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If your Foundation settles it could. Or if a Tire went flat. Not sure how they do installs there, but here many are treated like Trailer Homes.

If the plumbing has not been changed, Then why would it be plumbing if it worked for 1-2 years ?

It may just be what is being flushed.


Good Luck.

Because of expanding soil, the foundation had to be put on concrete caissons, so there's no settling. It's built on a regular foundation, not tires.
 

Reach4

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Suppose you could get this properly and reliably fixed for $3700. Would you do it?
 

Reach4

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Don't have the money. We're low income senior/disabled, and can become credit card slaves if we charge that much.

But what are you suggesting?

I am thinking that running a new sewer pipe outside the kitchen and tapping into it in two places from your pipes. The other end would splice into your sewer line. I hope it would not involve digging up the driveway. That number was a guess at what the low end for the work might be. Maybe I am being pessimistic. I don't know. But if that number did not scare you off, I would ask around as to who does good and reasonable sewer work, and see what it would really cost.

Some places have programs to finance such things http://www.renewdenver.org/news-and...using-rehabilitation-and-repair-programs.html

This is the kind of thing that a home equity loan or bank loan would make sense for. I would not carry credit card debt, since it is normally very expensive. That would be about 3 years of cable TV or 4 years of lottery tickets or a trip to Las Vegas for some people (not me).
 
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