Toilet Tank will not fill

[toiletmx]

Hi,

Probably a month or so ago my toilet began taking a long time to fill up (it now seems to take 20 or so minutes). This isn't due to the flapper sticking or being hung up by the chain which could be corrected with a quick jiggle of the handle. I have also inspected the valve for obstructions and pressed down to make sure it was seating.
A strong water flow enters the overflow tube from the refill tube (which is seated on top of the tube and not into the tube). The bowl fills up (hits the normal water level in the bowl) within 5-7 seconds, but as the water continues to flow into the overflow tube it does not fill the tank?

If I pull the refill tube off the overflow tube and direct the water into the tank, it takes about 40 seconds to fill. Once the water reaches the proper water level in the tank, the shutoff valve will close off the water entering the refill tube.

Any suggestions why the tank will not fill?

 

[Terry]

I would replace the fill valve. I had to do that with a Fluidmaster 400A this week.
The Fluidmaster fills the tank from the bottom of of the tower. The tubing into the overflow is the bowl refill.
And this is how most fill valves work in general.
Korky also makes a good fill valve. Lately, I have been buying the adjustable refill replacements.
In the Korky line, it's the 528MP

 

[Sponsor]

 

[WJcandee]

Yep. What Terry said.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_336988-868-528MPK_0__?Ntt=528mpk&UserSearch=528mpk&productId=3284948&rpp=32

 

[Dj2]

Another possible causes: the angle stop and fill flex supply line - especially if you have galv pipes.

 

[Jadnashua]

Another possible causes: the angel stop and fill flex supply line - especially if you have galv pipes.

Maybe indirectly...but, since water continues to come out of the tubing that fills the bowl at a good rate, it is not a flow issue from the valve. But, if you do have galvanized piping, rust particles or other crud could have plugged up the tank refill path in the fill valve. Some of the valves have inlet screen filters...if yours does, it wouldn't hurt to try to clean it, but it's more likely as Terry said...time for a new valve.

 

[toiletmx]

Hmmm, well I suppose that would be worth a shot to replace the fill valve. I am not sure why I am having a hard time figuring this out, but why would the fill valve prevent the tank from filling? I haven't really dug too deep into this but I was under the impression that there are two holes in the tank. One hole/hose/tube runs into the tank supplying water that goes into the fill valve which seems to have a simple job: water on or off depending on the float's position to to the valve. The second hole is the drain. Does the fill valve have a more involved job? I assumed the water flowing into the overflow tube was there to fill the bowl and then once the water hit a certain level, by difference in pressure, the water would just flow into the tank. But then again, by that reasoning, it would mean that water wouldn't be able to "overflow" into the drain in case of a faulty valve that doesn't shut off.
I'll give the fill valve a shot and will post the results.

 

[Terry]

"I assumed the water flowing into the overflow tube was there to fill the bowl and then once the water hit a certain level, by difference in pressure, the water would just flow into the tank."

Did you just write that the bowl would fill first, and then the water would continue upward and fill the tank that sits on top of the bowl. Like water is flowing uphill?
I would love to see where you live. I can't imagine water falls going up. Would that be a waterup?

 

[WJcandee]

Terry is obviously in a punchy mood.

The fill valve is a lot simpler than you think. What it does is take water in from the pipe in the wall and send a constant percentage through the refill hose and down the overflow riser to fill the bowl, with the rest going into the tank. So, on a 20-percent-refill-ratio toilet, 20 percent of the water coming into the valve goes out the refill hose and into the bowl, while 80 percent will be filling the tank, and all this happens at the same time.

The fill valve's on/off system is governed entirely and only by the level of water in the tank, and shuts off when the tank is filled to the preset level.

When the fill valve is properly adjusted to the right percentage for your toilet (old models used a standard 20 percent; some newer models use 40 percent; others are in-between), the tank and bowl will both be full at the same time. More accurately, the bowl is presumed to be full when the water level in the tank shuts off the fill valve. On old toilets, the 20 percent refill percentage resulted in a significant overfilling of the bowl, with the excess water just dribbling out of the bowl until the bowl level settled at its natural level for that toilet. Part of the water-saving in newer toilets comes from setting things up so the bowl refills to the right level, and no more, exactly when the tank gets full enough to shut off the fill valve.

Most likely, the symptoms you are experiencing come from something having partially-clogged the "80 percent" side of your valve, increasing the water pressure through the refill hose above what it usually is, and dramatically-reducing the amount flowing into the tank.

If you swap out the fill valve, all should be well. Trust us.

 

[hj]

quote; but why would the fill valve prevent the tank from filling?

If its outlet is obstructed, and I had one like that Saturday, the water will flow out of the refill tube, but NOT flow into the tank. REPLACE IT and solve your problem. They had a Korky replacement, but I told them I preferred my Fluidmaster.

 

[Terry]

"Terry is obviously in a punchy mood."

I could not resist the comment. I had never read a comment like that before, water flows upward. Well it will in some cases if you have the proper method for it.
For those of us that work with new parts from time to time, and sometimes are sent out to look at old parts, we see both sides of it. Sometimes the part in the tank is no longer functioning as it was designed. wjcandee has the best descriptions of how the fill valve works, which ones have what percentage of tank to bowl refill and other interesting data.
Lately, because we work on five gallon and down to 0.9 gallon tanks, we carry valves we can adjust the bowl refill rate with. This sometimes cuts water flow to the bowl as the tank is filling. A Fluidmaster 400A will overfill some bowls by over two gallons. Maybe in Arizona those two gallons don't mean much. It does seem like a waste though.

 

[WJcandee]

"Terry is obviously in a punchy mood."

I could not resist the comment.

It was funny!

It is interesting how most of us are kind of unaware of how stuff works -- which shows how reliable most of it is -- and how perplexed we get about what to do.

Hence the value of this forum! Because a lot of it is really straightforward!

 

[WJcandee]

Hey, toiletMx, here's a video on how to install a new fill valve:

 

[toiletmx]

Thanks wjcandee, that was the exact answer I was looking for. Since it was apparently clogged the flow out the tube was more than it should have been. Bought the part, and changed it within minutes. Thanks again.

 

[WJcandee]

I'm delighted! Wasn't that kinda fun? Thanks for reporting back! Come back with questions anytime!