Weak Flushing Drake

Users who are viewing this thread

bigbillsd

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
I installed two drake elongated toilets back in 2005, one tall, one short. They worked exactly the
same for many years. Now years later the tall one doesn't flush well unless I hold down the
flush handle for 2 -3 seconds for solids, and at least 1 second for liquids. (basically to get more water in the bowl than the other toilet needs to flush powerfully) It does make it flush better, but its not like the other toilet by a long shot. I also get occasional clogs this toilet over the last few years. I took off the toilet checked for the flow in the pipe, it was fine replaced the wax ring when I put it back and still gives me a weak flush unless I hold the handle open. The other toilet has no flushing issues and seems like day one. I've had to replace the flapper a few times on both these for some odd reason, almost a few year occurrence like my city water eats the rubber. I see lots of water coming in from the bottom of the bowl in the working toilet, and it seems to help push the water down the drain, but i do not see that on the weaker flushing toilet.
This is very odd and I would love to get this working like new again. Today I replaced the original fill valve with a Korky MaxPerformace model from Lowes and I pushed a coat hanger thru all the small holes around the rim as I read about in this forum. I also pushed the hanger into that smaller hole in the bottom front and it seems to be open, but doesn't seem to be as large a hole as I expected to find. Any ideas? Thanks, Bill
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
The flush valve could be the problem by closing too soon. Compare the drop in water level during a flush between toilets.

Some flush mechanisms have an adjustment of how much water remains when the valve closes.
 

WJcandee

Wise One
Messages
3,182
Reaction score
170
Points
63
Location
New York, NY
That hole at the bottom of the bowl on your Drakes is one reason they flush so well. That little "siphon jet" helps start a powerful siphon that pulls the waste from the bowl (in a gravity toilet, it is pulled, not pushed). It's not a unique feature of Totos, as that aspect of the design has been around for decades, but the siphon jet works in concert with Toto's exceptionally-well-designed trapway to provide that great flush. Without the siphon jet, the whole system won't work well.

When a toilet is not clogged on the outflow side but has issues with the flush, the siphon jet is one important thing to check.

Sometimes local water conditions will cause accumulations of crystalline material which can diminsh the flow to the siphon jet (and usually the rim holes at the same time). So I think you may be on the right track.

There was a thread on here a while back with ideas that people had for opening up those areas. CLR was one; vinegar, etc. I would just pour it down the overflow riser, and then let it sit in the passageways of the bowl for a while, then try to clear it by flushing. It might take a couple of applications.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
Something caught in the trapway itself could be the issue. If it's small enough, it may not create a clog, but could interfere with the actual flushing. But, as mentioned, the siphon jet itself needs to be clear to start the whole action. Children have been known to drop things into toilets! If they did it to the overflow tube or put something in the tank that then got flushed, it may be caught in there and slowing things down enough to create problems.
 

Wallijonn

Member
Messages
335
Reaction score
15
Points
18
Location
Arizona
The hard & easy way would be to swap tanks between the two toilets. If the problem stays with the same toilet then you know that it's in the bowl, if the problem switches to the other toilet you know it's in the fill valve and flush valve or chain.

Or swap the whole toilet. If it doesn't change then you know it's your pipes and if it does change then you have to troubleshoot the tank or the bowl.

Since it's a flushing issue, why not just swap the flappers between the toilets? Put the new flapper in the working toilet and the old flapper from the working toilet in the problematic toilet tank. Are the flappers authentic Toto parts? What colour are they?

Are they both the same toilet, or are they a 1.28gpf and a 1.6gpf?
 

bigbillsd

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
Both are the same 1.6G toilets except the one that flushes is the regular (short) height bowl. I attempted putting a snake down the bowl drain and I am thinking there is a pretty sharp right angle in there as it gets stuck till I am able to spin it and push hard. Sure wish I could find an actual Drake bowl cutaway diagram so I could tell if there should be a place that stops the snake hard about 9-10 inches in. That siphon hole is not round. I really think that siphon hole isn't working correctly.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
It sounds like your snake is getting caught where the trapway turns back up after making the bend down. You can see most of the outline of the trap from just viewing the side of the toilet.

Put some food coloring in the tank, then flush it...it should help you visualize the flow of the siphon jet. Compare it between the one that works and the one that doesn't. My guess is that the one that is giving you problems has something caught in the trapway, slowing things down.

Do you know the quality of your water? Do you get lots of mineral deposits on things, or is it fairly soft? How old again, are the toilets? Do you always flush when finished, or are you one who may leave it overnight so the flush doesn't make noise for others? Uric acid can deposit on things along with the minerals.
 

bigbillsd

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
both are about 6 months shy of 10 years old. I am guilty of waiting till morning. I am going to run out and get some vinegar and let it set overnight. I will also look for some food color to see where that goes..
 

Wallijonn

Member
Messages
335
Reaction score
15
Points
18
Location
Arizona
You may have to take the tank off, then remove the bowl, turn the bowl upside down, then insert the snake from the bowl bottom exit hole. Don't be surprised if a $1 plastic shaving blade comes out. :D
 

bigbillsd

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
I drained the bowl of all water and then poured half a gallon of ZEP Calcium, Lime and Rust stain remover down the overflow tube, let it sit for two hours and filled the tank, where upon all sorts of crud started showing up in the bowl. I flushed it down twice and then drained the bowl of water again and put the last of the gallon down the overflow tube and let it sit overnight. Next morning when I turned on the water to fill the tank again all this crud started showing up in the bowl, way more than the night before. I flushed it all down again and then the toilet seems to work like new again. What was so odd is there was nothing about the toilet that made it look like there was an issue. It sparkled before and after. Hard to imagine all that crud was chocking up the insides of the toilet and what you could see looked like new. I think I will buy another gallon and do it again till no more crud shows up. I still cannot believe that fixed it. Thanks Everyone!
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
Terry had posted a picture of a (copper I think) drain pipe from a toilet where the people didn't always flush it...the entire bottom of the pipe was eaten through. You really need to flush things when finishing. Some places have tried the 'new' waterless urinals...a major maintenance headache...they often get all clogged up. People with latrines never had that problem! The price we pay for modern amenities!

It's good to know that that fixed things. Thanks for filling us in, it should help others along the way.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,795
Reaction score
4,413
Points
113
Location
IL
Sometimes local water conditions will cause accumulations of crystalline material which can diminsh the flow to the siphon jet (and usually the rim holes at the same time). So I think you may be on the right track.

There was a thread on here a while back with ideas that people had for opening up those areas. CLR was one; vinegar, etc. I would just pour it down the overflow riser, and then let it sit in the passageways of the bowl for a while, then try to clear it by flushing. It might take a couple of applications.

Nice call.

Bigbillsd might want to consider a water softener. It will not only prevent further clogging later, it will have other benefits.
 

Wallijonn

Member
Messages
335
Reaction score
15
Points
18
Location
Arizona
BigBillSD,

Congrats on fixing your problem. I used to pour a cup of white vinegar down the overflow tube once a month for the same reason on my old toilets.

What I wanted to invent is to take a small pond water pump, set it inside the bowl, fill it with vinegar, connect the output hose down the overflow tube, turn it on and leave running over night. That should clean every single bowl drain hole. Obviously, if the pump is too strong it will empty the bowl before it is re-filled. That could pose a fire hazard, and the vinegar might eat the pump seals. I'm still researching the parts.

Maybe I'll do your method every 3 years, instead.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks