potassium chloride usage question

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jayinct

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WOW! I am buying Morton® Rust Remover Pellets at Menard's for under $5 a bag on sale.
You will move the last two pins closer to the others. The math will be easier with sodium chloride. I am thinking that with your 1 cubic foot of resin, you will want 6 pounds of NaCl salt (2 gallons of refill water). Thus 2 empty holes before the last two pegs. With KCl, I would take a guess that 3 or 4 holes might be sufficient, but Bannerman figured out that you have 6 holes before the last two pegs currently. If you switched from 6 to 3, that would cut your KCl use in half. You could monitor softness to see if you are getting hardness bleed through at the end of the period.

While you are thinking about it , start watching the Capacity (Gallons) to see how frequent the regenerations are.

I just looked at capacity gallons. The white dot is opposite 2 and gallons remaining is at 1/2. Does that mean it will be regenerating soon? (Still learning)
 

Reach4

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I just looked at capacity gallons. The white dot is opposite 2 and gallons remaining is at 1/2. Does that mean it will be regenerating soon? (Still learning)
Looking at the manual, that is what I think it indicates -- that you will regen the night after you use another 500 gallons. So that might be 5 days. It might be 3 days.
 
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DonL

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If you think that Salt is a bad thing for you, You should just scope what is in your water.

It all may be dead, But it is there. Take a look and see for yourself.

Salt is something you need.


Please report back if you die from using salt in your softener.
 

jayinct

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Ok, now I'm confused (again). Yesterday, I checked gallon capacity and the white dot was on the 2 and the arrow pointing to gallons remaining was between 0 and 1 (500 gallons?) Today the arrow is pointing to 2. Does that mean there was a regen last night? If that's correct, then wouldn't that mean that we used 500 gallons between yesterday and today? I can't imagine using that much water in a day!
 

DonL

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Ok, now I'm confused (again). Yesterday, I checked gallon capacity and the white dot was on the 2 and the arrow pointing to gallons remaining was between 0 and 1 (500 gallons?) Today the arrow is pointing to 2. Does that mean there was a regen last night? If that's correct, then wouldn't that mean that we used 500 gallons between yesterday and today? I can't imagine using that much water in a day!


It sounds like it.

Or maybe you have a leak if you did not use that much.


Good Luck
 

Reach4

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I would say that it regenerated. Record that. Maybe you will find that your zero point is off some, and that you will move your white dot to 2.5 to compensate. I suggest that you could modify your observation plan by recording the reading shortly before bed.

I have been expecting that the reserve amount was manually compensated for in choosing 2000 gallons rather than 2500 gallons for the capacity. What reserve capacity is about is that if the controller only regenerates at 2 AM, you want it to regenerate if it is likely to run out of capacity during the following day. In electronic controllers, that factor is programmed in. It is possible that your electromechanical has such a factor built in that I had not picked up on. I don't know.

So if your controller kicks off early, that combined with your too-long brine refill stage (IMHO), would explain your complaint of using too much KCl.

Your actual use in the long run tends to depend on the number of people. In the short run it might depend on flushes, showers, baths, and laundry.

So to recap where you are, I think your brine refill setting is too long-- even with KCl. If you switch to NaCl, the math will be easy. I have already posted my peg opinions on that. I think your capacity for efficiency should be 20,000 grains and that corresponds to 2500 gallons with your 8 GPG, although you may need to compensate for reserve capacity. I think that by "water company" you mean the people that you bought the softener from. I think they did not pick the right settings. You could insist that they come back and change the settings under warranty, but by this time you have learned enough that it may be simpler and easier to do that yourself. Then you will be able to optimize settings.

I only know what I read, and I have no actual experience with controllers like yours.
 
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jayinct

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I would say that it regenerated. Record that. Maybe you will find that your zero point is off some, and that you will move your white dot to 2.5 to compensate. I suggest that you could modify your observation plan by recording the reading shortly before bed.

I have been expecting that the reserve amount was manually compensated for in choosing 2000 gallons rather than 2500 gallons for the capacity. What reserve capacity is about is that if the controller only regenerates at 2 AM, you want it to regenerate if it is likely to run out of capacity during the following day. In electronic controllers, that factor is programmed in. It is possible that your electromechanical has such a factor built in that I had not picked up on. I don't know.

So if your controller kicks off early, that combined with your too-long brine refill stage (IMHO), would explain your complaint of using too much KCl.

Your actual use in the long run tends to depend on the number of people. In the short run it might depend on flushes, showers, baths, and laundry.

So to recap where you are, I think your brine refill setting is too long-- even with KCl. If you switch to NaCl, the math will be easy. I have already posted my peg opinions on that. I think your capacity for efficiency should be 20,000 grains and that corresponds to 2500 gallons with your 8 GPG, although you may need to compensate for reserve capacity. I think that by "water company" you mean the people that you bought the softener from. I think they did not pick the right settings. You could insist that they come back and change the settings under warranty, but by this time you have learned enough that it may be simpler and easier to do that yourself. Then you will be able to optimize settings.

I only know what I read, and I have no actual experience with controllers like yours.

Thanks for your reply and opinion. Yes, "water company" is how I refer to the people I bought the softener from. I just called them for the h* of it and asked if I switch to salt if there was anything I needed to do differently. I was told to let the potassium run down so as not to mix much in with the salt and to leave the settings as they are now. There's no need to change them. I've really lost confidence in these guys. It seems like they are not thinking "outside of the box". I am more than likely going to change over to salt so you guys aren't rid of me yet.
 

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Please post a picture of the front of the valve with the cover off and the meter assembly in back of the valve.
Hope these pictures are ok. If not, I'll try again. As I hope you can see, it looks like it's ready for another regeneration. The last one was Friday.
 

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Reach4

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How many people does this softener provide water to?
 

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Hope these pictures are ok.
Good enough!!! I have noted that your photo shows X100 on the dial whereas the manual we were looking at showed 1000. Could that be it? Could your softener have a turbine/gearing that moves the wheel more slowly, and you are really set up for 200 instead of 2000 gallons???

Yes! In the manual on page 7 it lists 41
60405-10 ...........
Program Wheel, w/3/4" STD Label
0-2,100 gal​

That is an option, and I think that is what you have. You need to move your white dot to point to 20 instead of 2.
 
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jayinct

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View attachment 26287 Good enough!!! I have noted that your photo shows X100 on the dial whereas the manual we were looking at showed 1000. Could that be it? Could your softener have a turbine/gearing that moves the wheel more slowly, and you are really set up for 200 instead of 2000 gallons???
Actually, the water company gave me the same manual that you were looking at. They were very specific in telling me that I was set up for 2000 gallons. I can call them and ask them what the x100 means.
 

jayinct

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View attachment 26287 Good enough!!! I have noted that your photo shows X100 on the dial whereas the manual we were looking at showed 1000. Could that be it? Could your softener have a turbine/gearing that moves the wheel more slowly, and you are really set up for 200 instead of 2000 gallons???

Yes! In the manual on page 7 it lists 41
60405-10 ...........
Program Wheel, w/3/4" STD Label
0-2,100 gal​

That is an option, and I think that is what you have. You need to move your white dot to point to 20 instead of 2.

That's unbelievable! It would make sense since it regenerated Friday night and as you can see its likely to do it again tonight! I'm going to call them tomorrow.
 

ditttohead

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X100 means times 100. Is the white dot set at 2 or 20? If it is set at two you system will egenerate every 200 gallons, or approximately every other day. If it is set at 20, that would be 20x100=2000 gallons.

The picture in the service manual is a generic 3200 meter photo even though it is in the 2510 manual, it is not specific to the 2510. the picture you posted would indicate a standard turbine/meter combo, not an extended range. If you had the extended range, it has a 5:1 reduction, thereby slowing it down and causing the opposite problem, not using enough salt/regenerating too late and infrequently by a factor of 5. That is why I asked specifically for a picture of the meter dial and the actual meter. It is easy to tell by the picture if the meter sticker and dome match with the pictures.

Once it regenerates tonight, watch the meter for a couple days and track how many gallons it says it uses per day. If it is excessive, you may have a leaky toilet or some other problem. Please post the picture of the meter dome.
Below are the 2 most common meter combinations used on the electromechanical 2510.
A. 3/4" Std Range (125 - 2,100 gallon setting)
B. 3/4" Ext Range (625 - 10,625 gallon setting)

Other settings for the electromechanical meter are as follows.
A. 3/4" Std Range (125 - 2,100 gallon setting)
B. 3/4" Ext Range (625 - 10,625 gallon setting)
C. 1" Std Range (310 - 5,270 gallon setting)
D. 1" Ext Range (1,150 - 26,350 gallon setting)
E. 1-1/2" Std Range (625 - 10,625 gallon setting)
F. 1-1/2" Ext Range (3,125 - 53,125 gallon setting)
G. 2" Std Range (1,250 - 21,250 gallon setting)
H. 2" Ext Range (6,250 - 106,250 gallon setting)
I. 3" Std Range (3,750 - 63,750 gallon setting)
J. 3" Ext Range (18,750 - 318,750 gallon setting)

The closest thing I could match that picture up to is the 2" standard range meter, obviously the 2510 does not come with that.


The old mechanical Fleck meter is amazingly accurate and registers very slow flow rates. A slow leak in a toilet could easily be 100+ gallons per day.
 
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Reach4

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X100 means times 100. Is the white dot set at 2 or 20?
His white dot is at 2. reference: reply #21. He has been tracking for several days.

I wonder if his system seller and installer, who set this up, will reimburse him for his excess KCl use.
 

Reach4

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Please post a picture of the front of the valve with the cover off and the meter assembly in back of the valve.
Good call. He did not show meter assembly picture, but the front picture identified the problem.
The closest thing I could match that picture up to is the 2" standard range meter, obviously the 2510 does not come with that.
Maybe the picture of the back would have shown some label or other indication of what model variation he has. But I think the primary mystery has been solved.

He will still be looking for suggestion on modifying his settings for his NaCL use when he converts from KCl. But maybe now that his KCl usage would only be 10 to 20 percent of what it was, he will not convert right away.
 
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