Toilet vent location

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IceQuake

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Hello all,

Been having major multiple problems and I've done my best to fix them, but the last toilet inline doesn't flush well. There are two bathrooms in total, on the ground floor, only 15 feet to the outside wall with 4 inch pipe and the vent is between the two toilets. Is there suppose to be a vent immediately between the last toilet and the outside wall for it to flush perfectly or adequately? This is the second time I've dug up the lines for the septic. Never let anyone back fill your project when you turn your back. Septic tank lines are only 2.75" difference and the tank is only .5 inch off the wrong way, precision water level checked. Thinking I got a lemon tank and toilet... Just removed the T on the inlet, but still the last inline toilet won't flush great. I just can't envision one flush would restrict the air movement in a 4 inch pipe. What about a "vent connection" between the drain field pipe and the inlet ??? Super Bad Idea?
Slopes are all good, now. JFYI the drain field pipe was bent up so that the tank level was 1.75 inches higher. Was told the difference should be 4 to 5 inches pre-made within the tank. About to raise the inlet a bit, but not sure what to do about the rubber boot. Thanks, help.
 

Plumbum

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Hello all,

Been having major multiple problems and I've done my best to fix them, but the last toilet inline doesn't flush well. There are two bathrooms in total, on the ground floor, only 15 feet to the outside wall with 4 inch pipe and the vent is between the two toilets. Is there suppose to be a vent immediately between the last toilet and the outside wall for it to flush perfectly or adequately? This is the second time I've dug up the lines for the septic. Never let anyone back fill your project when you turn your back. Septic tank lines are only 2.75" difference and the tank is only .5 inch off the wrong way, precision water level checked. Thinking I got a lemon tank and toilet... Just removed the T on the inlet, but still the last inline toilet won't flush great. I just can't envision one flush would restrict the air movement in a 4 inch pipe. What about a "vent connection" between the drain field pipe and the inlet ??? Super Bad Idea?
Slopes are all good, now. JFYI the drain field pipe was bent up so that the tank level was 1.75 inches higher. Was told the difference should be 4 to 5 inches pre-made within the tank. About to raise the inlet a bit, but not sure what to do about the rubber boot. Thanks, help.

Where I come from. Each fixture has it's own vent.
 

Cacher_Chick

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Pull the toilet and dump a 5 gallon bucket full of water into the closet flange. If the water flows down without hesitation, the problem is the toilet.

The purpose of a fixture vent is to prevent siphoning of the trap. A missing vent does not cause poor drainage if the remainder of the piping is properly installed.
 

hj

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quote; A missing vent does not cause poor drainage

It WILL if there is not an adequate vent to prevent the system from being air bound. We would have to be there to do our own diagnosis to determine what the problem is.
 

Plumbum

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Pull the toilet and dump a 5 gallon bucket full of water into the closet flange. If the water flows down without hesitation, the problem is the toilet.

The purpose of a fixture vent is to prevent siphoning of the trap. A missing vent does not cause poor drainage if the remainder of the piping is properly installed.

The problem with your theory is now WITHOUT a toilet set in place you are introducing a lot of air into the system with the water. Of course it will flow. You've essentially gave the drain a 3-4" vent. Now if you left the toilet set and dumped a 5 gallon bucket. You would be able to tell a whole lot more. If the bowl will not accept 5 gallons of water and goes "glub-glub". (assuming the drain line is completely empty). Then you have a vent issue.
 

Reach4

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The problem with your theory is now WITHOUT a toilet set in place you are introducing a lot of air into the system with the water. Of course it will flow.
The purpose of that test is to check for a blockage.
 

Caduceus

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I think everybody should be really quiet for a moment....think about what cacher_chick said....then say "You're right, cacher_chick." and move on to solving the problem. M'kay?
 

Caduceus

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The problem with your theory is now WITHOUT a toilet set in place you are introducing a lot of air into the system with the water. Of course it will flow. You've essentially gave the drain a 3-4" vent. Now if you left the toilet set and dumped a 5 gallon bucket. You would be able to tell a whole lot more. If the bowl will not accept 5 gallons of water and goes "glub-glub". (assuming the drain line is completely empty). Then you have a vent issue.

Not true.
 

Caduceus

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quote; A missing vent does not cause poor drainage

It WILL if there is not an adequate vent to prevent the system from being air bound. We would have to be there to do our own diagnosis to determine what the problem is.
Hello all,

Been having major multiple problems and I've done my best to fix them, but the last toilet inline doesn't flush well. There are two bathrooms in total, on the ground floor, only 15 feet to the outside wall with 4 inch pipe and the vent is between the two toilets. Is there suppose to be a vent immediately between the last toilet and the outside wall for it to flush perfectly or adequately? This is the second time I've dug up the lines for the septic. Never let anyone back fill your project when you turn your back. Septic tank lines are only 2.75" difference and the tank is only .5 inch off the wrong way, precision water level checked. Thinking I got a lemon tank and toilet... Just removed the T on the inlet, but still the last inline toilet won't flush great. I just can't envision one flush would restrict the air movement in a 4 inch pipe. What about a "vent connection" between the drain field pipe and the inlet ??? Super Bad Idea?
Slopes are all good, now. JFYI the drain field pipe was bent up so that the tank level was 1.75 inches higher. Was told the difference should be 4 to 5 inches pre-made within the tank. About to raise the inlet a bit, but not sure what to do about the rubber boot. Thanks, help.
Do the drainage test as cacher_chick mentioned and even dump two, 5 gallon buckets one after the other. Let us know how it goes. With a 4" pipe both buckets should drain easily. As a matter of fact, as you dump a bucket have somebody flush the other toilet at the same time. The pipes should accept all of the water. If not and you have a back up then there are other problems.
 

IceQuake

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Hello all,

Ah some response. Had a bad storm and the power went out for 24 hours and poured lots of water in both toilets and was really surprised how both love to be "flushed" that way. The only thing I can think of next is to switch the toilets and see if the one that works great acts like it is more swirl than drain intermittent BS, I'm at a loss. Guest bathroom and two feet of 4" pipe then 4" vent then 10 feet to second toilet and then 15 feet to tank all down hill prob. .5" per foot. Snaked the last toilet with one of those short bowl snakes many times. Only thing I haven't done is snake up from outside which is only 2 feet to the last toilet with one 4" 45 degree fitting, but when I dump in water it goes immediately down for this one also, no gurgle except practically leaving nothing left for trap effect.

What about the tank level? Shouldn't be right at the bottom of the 4 inch pipe should it? Should drop, no ? Knocked off the T on the inlet and the line is clear and is still exposed with a rubber no-hub and the rubber boot of the tank and don't want to bury it till its fixed once and for all. Any advice on raising the inlet? I have diamond blades and pneumatic hand chisels and know how to use them, but not sure what to do with the rubber boot part, half a fitting and foam? Form to keep concrete from falling in the tank? I've got some slack in the slope to maybe raise it 3 or 4 inches and still have 1/8th minimum on an inch per foot.

The vent has always had a screen and can be heard from outside the house when flushing so must be clear. Help, got to fix this, winter comes... & Thanks All.
 

Reach4

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Your two sentences that start with " Had a bad storm" are good. Switching toilets is probably the solution if flushing with a bucket works well, but using the lever does not. I would start with the replacement of your most problematic.

Your paragraph that starts "What about the tank level? " is confusing. The toilet tank is above the bowl. The rest of the paragraph is not so clear either. May I suggest that you illustrate what you mean with a photo?
 

IceQuake

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Your two sentences that start with " Had a bad storm" are good. Switching toilets is probably the solution if flushing with a bucket works well, but using the lever does not. I would start with the replacement of your most problematic.

Your paragraph that starts "What about the tank level? " is confusing. The toilet tank is above the bowl. The rest of the paragraph is not so clear either. May I suggest that you illustrate what you mean with a photo?


2nd paragraph, the septic tank level. The pipe's bottom is at or a bit over the effluent level, but isn't there a scum floating above that that would backup in the pipe ?....? Or should the waist drop on top of the floating waist? Someone should know how all this is suppose to work. Read the Original Post , the tank seems a bit wrong. Was told there should be a 4 to 5 inch difference from the inlet and outlet of the septic tank flanges... BUT I water leveled it and it is only 2.25 ? I forget, not much if ya ask me. The inlet and outlet pipes where driven over and had bellies / sags... The outlet was artificially risen which I fixed and the 2nd time for the inlet, thinking no gravel to support the pipe and golf carts driven between the house and tank ?
 

IceQuake

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Don't ya just hate intermittent multiple problem jobs ! And in the end your wondering what fixed it... Switched toilets 2 days ago and everything is working great. As I stood watching the problem toilet flush over and over flawlessly in its new location the only thing that came to my trouble shooting mind was "tuned" LOL

Guess it's time to put gravel under the lines. But no one has answered the inlet to the fluid level of the tank part.
If it works , don't fix it? Off to other projects, thanks.
 
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