Water Softener settings help

[Myplumber198]

Hello,

I have an Independent Water Tech (IWT) 565 (http://www.watersoftenerdr.com/images/565_IWT_Manual_-_Valve_Ver_9.pdf) . Below is the info.

4 adults and 2 big dogs household
Municipal Water
Location = Phoenix, AZ
1 resin tank = 12" x 52"
Brine tank = 14"x 14”x 32"
¾” plumbing
I use the Level Two programming and modify it using the following data -
Regen Mode – Metered Delayed
Regen Time – 2am
Capacity Calc – Automatic
Resin Vol – 2 cubic feet
Salt Dosage Setting – 7.5 pounds per cubic foot
Refill Flow Rate - .7 gallons a minute
Capacity – 52,000 grains
Reserve Capacity – 75 gal/per person
Backwash – 10 minutes
Brine/Rinse – 60 minutes
Rinse – 10 minutes
Refill – 7.1 minutes
I get a 2225 gallon capacity.

The reason I am asking is when I try use the above settings, the water is hard toward the end – i.e. the last 800 gallons or so…

Also, how much water should be in the brine take after a regeneration? When I have a brine tank half full with salt pellets, when it is done refilling it, it does not fill up to the top of the pellets.

I appreciate any helps and advice. Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

Quick look...
That implies 2*7.5/3 = 5 gallons of water.
That is 1155 cubic inches of water.
If 14 inch square tank, that is 196 square inches.
So 5.9 inches of water above minimum level if just water. If there is salt there, I don't know what the right factor is. If That factor is double, then 11.8 inches above minimum. So half full would be 16 inches. If low tide is 2 inches, the water might come up to almost 14 inches. So the salt could be covering that.

If you get hard water with 800 gallons to go, then you either need to reduce the grains or you need to increase the hardness that you program in. So maybe change 54,000 to 34,600. (using your 800 and 2225 numbers)

With 2 cuft and 8 lb per cuft of resin, you should get 48000 grains of hardness removal, and 40000 with 6 lbs per cuft. Maybe we would expect about 46000 grains from 7.5. So probably your water is harder than you programmed into the softener controller, or you had some iron or other minerals contributing to the effective hardness.



I did not review all of your numbers.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

Your program is set to utilize too much capacity before regeneration occurs.

Your 2 cu/ft softener has a total capacity of 60,000 grains but to regenerate that entire capacity, 15 lbs cu/ft or 30 lbs of salt is required per regeneration. This is not an efficient use of salt as this equals only 2000 grains per lb.

Your current 7.5 lbs/cu/ft setting will not provide 52,000 grains as 8 lbs cu/ft can provide only 48,000 grains.

As an initial suggestion, set to 8 lbs/cu/ft and dial back capacity to 48,000 grains including your 1 day reserve. This provides a much more efficient 3000 grains per pound.

To restore resin capacity, you will need to initially regenerate using 30 lbs of salt (15 lbs/cu/ft) but after using the full capacity, it is often advised to do two of these regens back to back with no water use in between. You may manually add water to the salt in the brine tank to total 10 gallons to dissolve the 30 lbs but you will need to wait at least 3 hours after adding water each time, to allow the brine to reach full strength before initiating each regeneration.

You didn't indicate your untreated water's compensated hardness (hardness + iron factor - (if applicable)) You will need to state the compensated hardness if you want your settings to be verified.

Edited to add: The current amount of water in your brine tank is consistently almost 5 gallons. (Refill Flow Rate - .7 gallons a minute X Refill – 7.1 minutes = 4.97 gallons). 5 gallons will dissolve 15 lbs of salt. The visual height of the water will vary as the salt level changes.

 

[Myplumber198]

Your program is set to utilize too much capacity before regeneration occurs.

Your 2 cu/ft softener has a total capacity of 60,000 grains but to regenerate that entire capacity, 15 lbs cu/ft or 30 lbs of salt is required per regeneration. This is not an efficient use of salt as this equals only 2000 grains per lb.

Your current 7.5 lbs/cu/ft setting will not provide 52,000 grains as 8 lbs cu/ft can provide only 48,000 grains.

As an initial suggestion, set to 8 lbs/cu/ft and dial back capacity to 48,000 grains including your 1 day reserve. This provides a much more efficient 3000 grains per pound.

To restore resin capacity, you will need to initially regenerate using 30 lbs of salt (15 lbs/cu/ft) but after using the full capacity, it is often advised to do two of these regens back to back with no water use in between. You may manually add water to the salt in the brine tank to total 10 gallons to dissolve the 30 lbs but you will need to wait at least 3 hours after adding water each time, to allow the brine to reach full strength before initiating each regeneration.

You didn't indicate your untreated water's compensated hardness (hardness + iron factor - (if applicable)) You will need to state the compensated hardness if you want your settings to be verified.

Edited to add: The current amount of water in your brine tank is consistently almost 5 gallons. (Refill Flow Rate - .7 gallons a minute X Refill – 7.1 minutes = 4.97 gallons). 5 gallons will dissolve 15 lbs of salt. The visual height of the water will vary as the salt level changes.

Bannerman: First off - Thank you very much for responding!!!!! My water does not have iron in it, so I am good there. To be honest, I think my hardness might be a tick lower - like 19. But because I have been struggling with the machine, I went a bit higher. I will make these changes to my settings and do as you say to restore resin capacity! The funny thing is, I was adding a little water into the brine tank in the past thinking something was wrong, but I now know it is a precise game of dissolving salt with the rate, time, etc. Again, thank you very much! I was getting a bit frustrated with my softener (because I did not know exactly how it works - I do now!) P.S. I am also going to figure out what the true hardness level is and make that adjustment in the near future.

 

[Myplumber198]

Quick look...
That implies 2*7.5/3 = 5 gallons of water.
That is 1155 cubic inches of water.
If 14 inch square tank, that is 196 square inches.
So 5.9 inches of water above minimum level if just water. If there is salt there, I don't know what the right factor is. If That factor is double, then 11.8 inches above minimum. So half full would be 16 inches. If low tide is 2 inches, the water might come up to almost 14 inches. So the salt could be covering that.

If you get hard water with 800 gallons to go, then you either need to reduce the grains or you need to increase the hardness that you program in. So maybe change 54,000 to 34,600. (using your 800 and 2225 numbers)

With 2 cuft and 8 lb per cuft of resin, you should get 48000 grains of hardness removal, and 40000 with 6 lbs per cuft. Maybe we would expect about 46000 grains from 7.5. So probably your water is harder than you programmed into the softener controller, or you had some iron or other minerals contributing to the effective hardness.



I did not review all of your numbers.

Reach4: Thank you very much for your reply! I appreciate it. After reading your reply and the next, I am understanding how this crazy water softener works and how precise everything is. I know understand, the amount of water needed to is tied to the amount of salted needed to clean the resin. So it is all connected. In other words, I think I am ok with the lack of water I am seeing in the brine tank.

 

[Myplumber198]

Here are my current settings after making the suggested changes:
Resin Vol – 2 cubic feet
Salt Dosage Setting – 8 pounds per cubic foot
Refill Flow Rate - .7 gallons a minute
Capacity – 48,000 grains
Reserve Capacity – 75 gal/per person
Backwash – 10 minutes
Brine/Rinse – 60 minutes
Rinse – 10 minutes
Refill – 7.6 minutes
I get a 2100 gallon capacity.

I regenerated it twice with a 2 hour gap between. I will let everyone know how it works for me! I can't thank the folks that replied enough!!!!

 

[Bannerman]

I think my hardness might be a tick lower - like 19

Where did you get the '19' hardness number from?

The prior recommendations regarding the capacity of the softener and salt settings does not calculate or program how many grains are needed per gallon. You will need to determine the proper number through actual testing.

As you are on a municipal system, most municipalities now make water test results available on-line. Failing that, contact your municipal office to obtain their test results. If the results indicate more than one level of hardness (ie: seasonal variances or multiple water sources), you should always program for the highest (hardest) result, not an average.

If the pre-treated water is actually harder than what the softener is programmed for, the softener capacity will eventually be exhausted again at some point and you'll again be dissatisfied experiencing hardness bleed through prior to regeneration.

FYI, average water consumption is generally estimated in the industry as 60 gals/person/day. Perhaps you are basing your 75 gals/person reserve on actual meter readings or inflating an estimate to compensate for your 2 large dogs. Your summary suggest you have programmed at 20 grains for 4 people at 75 gals/day which will provide 8 days before a regen is necessary.
(20 grains X 75 gals X 4 ppl = 6000 grains/day) (48000 capacity / 6000 = 8 days)

As your electronic control is programmed for 1 day reserve, regeneration should occur 1 day sooner. As 75 gals X 4 ppl X 7 days = 2100 usable gals, this confirms the 2100 gal capacity figure calculated by the control when programmed for the variables discussed above.

 

[Myplumber198]

19 comes from https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservices/waterquality/water-quality-reports... the past few years it has been 17... 2009 it was 18... Thus my reason I have it at 19. The estimates where worst case scenario for the gals/person/day... My kids and wife take 20 + minute showers amongst other things that drive me nuts... I have to pick my battles. The other thing that I should have said is this is a whole home set up. So when it is "running low" it is very noticeable seeing in the summer here, we use mostly cold water in the mix for showers.

One last thing, does the capacity of the resin beads slowly rise toward the end of capacity or does it just end. In other words, for me at 1600 gals, is the hardness creeping up to 2, at 1700 gallons to 3, at 1800 to 4, etc... or is it just between 0 and 1 up to 2100 gallons and then bam, it is done? Just curious...

 

[Reach4]

Creeping up.

 

[Bannerman]

ducatiduke,

The settings that were suggested, allow for at most 80% of the total capacity to be utilized before a regen is initiated. Since 1 cu/ft of resin has 32,000 grains capacity (~ 30K in actual practice), as your unit is 2 cu/ft, it has 60,000 grains total capacity.

Similar to your car, you don't need to wait until the fuel tank is empty before re-fueling. Unlike your car, softener salt efficiency rises when regenerating less than total capacity.

The 48,000 grain suggested programming provides much better salt efficiency than exhausting the entire total capacity of the softener as only 16 lbs of salt (8 lbs/cu/ft) is required to regenerate verses 30 lbs+ if the entire 60K grain capacity is utilized.

As Reach previously suggested, a higher salt efficiency is at 12 lbs (6 lbs/cu/ft). While this is more efficient (40K / 12 lbs = 3333.3 grains per lb), it requires more frequent regens as a maximum 40,000 grains are available from your unit including the 1 day reserve, before regeneration is required. With your current hardness and consumption settings, the expected regen schedule is reduced to 5 days for your 4 person family.

Salt efficiency settings are a balance between salt consumed, additional water needed to regenerate (more frequent regens), and water quality since higher efficiency provides more potential for hardness bleed through. The suggested 8 lb setting offers a good balance with an expected full week between regenerations.

As the suggested programming anticipates 20 grains of hardness which is slightly higher than your findings indicate, running out of soft water should not be an issue.


Edited to add: I'm not sure what is meant by the following statement -

So when it is "running low" it is very noticeable seeing in the summer here, we use mostly cold water in the mix for showers.

As it is a whole home setup, both the hot and cold water to the showers should be soft water. The only faucets that should not be softened are usually the outside hose bibs as those are used for watering plants and vegetation which do not require soft water.