Educating The Budget Client on Tile shower pricing

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ShowerDude

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Guessing 90 square feet at $450.00 per foot. Less the materials she supplies.

$40,500
-4,000.00 tile and fixtures

$36,500 rough quote.


Thanks John for that insight to your process. this is neat project for a neat young client couple. I went ahead and spent a few hours looking closer and came in well below your ballpark, but then Im not John whipple!!! and im in a very different market than Vancouver...

Plus this would likely lead to the basement bathroom right below it...... "likely!"!!!!!! have you heard that before.

Ballparked at 26 K w/5 week window....if they bite I will look at detailed scope and materials. and see where were at...
 

ShowerDude

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When it rains it pours, all of a sudden I have had a lot of extra hits on my website and hence more Quotes.....?? (interesting !!!)

Up here in the Northwoods our Hockey players like their steam showers....

This is a neat referral client that is ready to consolidate 2 into 1

photo.JPG


" lets see do i want a steam or a sauna!!!!!!!!!!" what he really wants is both he and the wife in 1.

Sticker shock cometh............in regards to pricing this steamer, but look at what hes been gettin by with !!!! once removed we would have a nice 4x7 steamer with 9' headroom and full frontal glass...
 

JohnfrWhipple

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I would keep your ceiling height lower. Nine feet is a little too high I think.

Counter the more you share your work. Your opinions. And I think prove here that you are in fact a contractor more people will visit your web page and call you. I have know this for years and this is the single largest reason I contribute so much.

People today are less likely to hire someone with a large Yellow Pages Ad and more likely to hire someone they follow online. Most of my clients have read countless debates of mine online and watch my projects unfold. The typical client for me here in Vancouver has followed me here, my blog page and on Houzz for 1-2 years. Not weeks. Months and months.

Keep showing of your work. Keep sharing your thoughts on construction. Keep building baller bathrooms and it all will keep you getting more and more work.

My quote I went to last week read a debate I had with Mongo - years ago on Garden Web. She like the fact that I shared the info that my flood test failed. She makes the fifth person to contact me over this one post. I should make more flood test leak! lol NOT

Check out this Cheap Slow Draining Shower. Comes as a kit - just add water....
 
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ShowerDude

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When it rains it pours, all of a sudden I have had a lot of extra hits on my website and hence more Quotes.....?? (interesting !!!)

Up here in the Northwoods our Hockey players like their steam showers....

This is a neat referral client that is ready to consolidate 2 into 1

View attachment 25939

" lets see do i want a steam or a sauna!!!!!!!!!!" what he really wants is both he and the wife in 1.

Sticker shock cometh............in regards to pricing this steamer, but look at what hes been gettin by with !!!! once removed we would have a nice 4x7 steamer with 9' headroom and full frontal glass...


UPDATE : This client was a referral from my family. A neat guy. In our meeting he mentioned a budget of 3K ! he is clearly uneducated as to the work that goes into a build like this.

The client was to remove both the sauna and steam kit and id take it from there.


I quoted this steam shower as A Nobleseal TS spec. steam room with laticrete 254 and an ebbe point drain. Amrec steam unit , grohe ibox w/rain head /handheld/fixed head(clients requested fixture needs). 2 tile material choices of low vitrosity porcelain , pitched ceiling , 3/8 tempered glass/transom and spectralock grouts.

I did not include plumbing fixtures/labor/ 220 electrical wiring which I would have subbed out.

Ballparked this as a 6 week turnaround at 9-11K thinking all along this is a family referral and the price should reflect that.

Its a NO GO. hes still thinkin its way way way to much!!!!

I would love to hear from any real tile pros that build custom steam showers and how they'd priced it.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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Post a birds Eye plan for the bathroom with measurements. Once I finish quoting these six showers I'll quote your job for you like I would for a client.

I quoted a double bathroom reno last week. One tub to no curb shower. One failed steam shower rebuild. All new tile. All new plumbing fixtures. Framing repairs. paint. finishing everything.

Total price for both was just under $45,000.00 - these where small bathrooms. Most of the bathrooms we work on end up in the $26,000- $60,000 price point. People love their bathrooms here in vancouver and more and more are willing to pay to have them done right.

I think people understand that a $60,000 bathroom with say $ 5,000 going to me is better than say $55,000 bathroom where the builder builds the shower from some foam kit. I see so many bathrooms in high end reno's getting butchered. It's sad when I give a quote to get tile ready and the builder says. Why so much? My guy charges $350.00 why do you want $1,500.00 for the same step.....

You get what you pay for.
 

ShowerDude

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Yeah I was gonna tear out ceiling and re frame the pitched ceiling and build to spec. try and get 2" per/ft. which i have yet to achieve in a build. my last 3 steamers I could only squeeze a 1/2-3/4 per ft.

While i always try to build to TCNA/ Noble / Laticrete steam room specs. It takes some real headroom to get 2" per ft. And IMO I think its a bit much. I have not had any complaints of cool water dropping off these underpitched ceilings.....
 
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JohnfrWhipple

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Counter you need to type your reply outside the quote field. Your comments look like part of my post.

I have built a lot of steam showers. I have never framed a slope into one of them!

Here in Vancouver they are not required unless for a commercial install. I don't do commercial work. I have shown clients the pitch and they are horrified. I like to design the ceilings so they can easily be squegueed by all users.

You will find people talking online about cold water drops on you. Two words for that. BULL SHIT. I have taken many many steams. Not once has a drop hit me. And if one did in a steam shower it would be welcome. I think your finding the more you chat online how few of us actually work in the field of discussion.

Or local expert here on Terry Love's forum Jim is self taught. He reads every rule. Every post. Blends them together to make himself helpful and sound smart. He does not however build steam shower or showers. He might have build one shower. Maybe two. Four would be a stretch - yet men like Jim here and on the JB site advice thousands daily.

The blind leading the blind my friend. Right now I'm helping with a steam shower build in California. Another in Toronto. One in Ohio. All three of these online clients read through the BS. And wanted help from me. I guess because I can show them detailed photos. Scan their pictures for blunders and the like.

I would hate to have me looking over my shoulder. But for many of my clients spending $25 or $50 to discuss a few work progress photos is money well spent. Last year I helped another client in California and I begged her to fire the tile crew or at least get it inspected. I was right and the shower was not framed right. She had a total do over. Cost her $2,000 for changes but saved her $15,000 down the road. That was a twenty minute call.

I get lots of easy questions from builders all over. I think they like my point blank approach. No bull shit. This is how I do and why. Or you can read directions on printed material.

I read that hot glue can bond tile. Does that mean I can tile with it? lol You know what I mean?
 
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ShowerDude

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People.....stay away from hotglue......LOL actually if it doesnt re-emulsify it may be better than mastic in certain projects!!!!!
 

JohnfrWhipple

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I used hot glue to make another tile sample board in a hurry. The point is that the manufacture of the glue says it can glue tile. So if "FOLLOW MANUFACTURES RECOMMENDATONS" - its OK.

This following of manufactures recommendations leads to all sorts of bad things.

Like grouting too soon.

Using drywall for a shower build.

Mastic.

Things like this.

When educating the client on shower prices they need to know not just what these companies say is right - but what the industry wants. For example - modified thin-sets with most tile and concrete board in a steam shower. You know - the basics....
 

ShowerDude

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It's sad when I give a quote to get tile ready and the builder says. Why so much? My guy charges $350.00 why do you want $1,500.00 for the same step.....
You get what you pay for.

Sad indeed, It can be a challenge to get the client to understand the difference in your methods, materials, and the end product/quality...

A lot of builders here want the fastest shower pan...lot of guys still building full mortar pans w/oatey liners glued/flange connections.......for $500. No flood test. and a lot of dens shield on top of those pans no blocking nothing just install and run..........

it should be just as important as to whats underneath the tile assembly ......IMO.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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$500.00 for the mud bed over an Oatley Pan.

Nice - that's good money for sand and cement. I'd take that all day long. Two a day and I would be a happy camper.

Does that include just the mud bed or does that include the plumbers fee for setting the Otley or LynnCarr liner?
 

ShowerDude

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When considering steam shower pricing....and sticker shock. People often times cant grasp the steam unit assembly/placement/logistics.

"Why do steam showers cost so much more its just a shower with a steam unit???? my other guy said its really not that different and just a few hundred more that a regular shower"

I get this response a lot.....right after the sticker shock factor........I am the harbinger of bad news so many times.!

heres just a few reasons why a steam shower cost premium $$$

Requirments of 220V, dedicated circuits, for example on this very "Budget minded" steam set up we had to run over 35' of 220 wire to the panel. 35ft of this wire is not cheap..... the added electrical/plumbing expenses, and the actual unit itself.

In this example I used an amrec unit and low voltage chromatherapy. This steam set up alone while being a "More affordable" set up than say a thermosol setup.....easily adds 3-4K to the project.

this unit doesnt have a self cleaning option and my client did his homework. If you look close youll see a nice pelican water filtration system to the left. There are also pre filters in line before that system to massage this city water before it hits the amrec unit. Very smart this client , he wanted to add some preventive maintanence to this system.....

now were up to about 5-6 K and we have not even talked about building the shower itself or the materials for that step....

???? Can you really get a steam shower built all said and done for 6K???? The answer is NO.


IMG_1973.JPG


UPDATE EDIT: when i say 35 ft of 220 wires not cheap thats a stretch i suppose. My Electrician has to buy that in spools at a few hundred dollars a pop....sorry if that little tidbit seemd off.

I also reccomend you don't go "cowboy" on your home..Pay an electrician to open your panel and tie in to this potentially deadly voltage.


It does indeed take a substantial extra chunk of $ to consider a professionally installed steam system. and the detailed skill to build it properly....
 
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ShowerDude

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$500.00 for the mud bed over an Oatley Pan.

Nice - that's good money for sand and cement. I'd take that all day long. Two a day and I would be a happy camper.

Does that include just the mud bed or does that include the plumbers fee for setting the Otley or LynnCarr liner?

no plumber fees.!! the last one of these i did was with a noble preslope, otey liner, suoix chief drain, wood curb with noble foam overlay. all in one day per the genral contractors request. $200 materials and $300 labor. it can work out if you want to build a crap shower with foam and wood and no flood. Otherwise were talkin about multiple return trips to the clients property, and dry times / flood times/etc. A premium shower pan as we build them John cost a premium yet fair price.... the differnce being say $500 and $800 for a far premium pan
 

Jadnashua

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While chromatherapy may be a nice, premium feature, who says it's mandatory for a steam shower? ANd, the need for any specific water treatment for the steamer may or may not be required - the house may already have soft water and is fine for the unit, so you'd then drop the cost down considerably. 35' of 8g wire (the gauge will depend on the size of the unit you require, but 8g would supply enough power for up to about 150sqft from at least one manufacturer) is easily less than $100, plus maybe $30 for a CB, and then the labor, which could be all over the place, depending on the layout, but probably not more than a couple of hours - around here, about $150.

Certainly, you CAN spend a huge amount more for a steam shower over a conventional one, but other than tiling the ceiling and using a membrane all over verses up the walls and then the steam unit...the difference in cost really isn't a huge amount. Certainly, you COULD spend a lot more, just like you can buy a Rolls Royce, but a Hyundai will get you from point A to point B, too, and they have some nice vehicles as well. Depending on your choice of membrane, it may already be well suited for a steamer.

While there certainly are people with a budget for a $40-50K or more bathroom remodel, you can get a perfectly serviceable one for a lot less. It won't have all of the custom frills, but they play little part in functionality - nice, maybe, required, no. It does take some careful planning, and good workmanship, regardless, though.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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....How many steam showers have you built ??.....

How many? Good question.

West Vancouver x 1
Yaletown x 1
West End x 1
Granville Island x 1
China Town x 1
Kerrisdale x 3
UBC x 1
East Vancouver x 1
North Vancouver x 3

Roughly 13 Counter. Why do you ask? Did I say something wrong?

Hey counter did you know that some of the steam shower generators actually use the mineral content in the water to heat it. These pre-filter steps are often needed just to make steam. We did a steam shower years ago in Yaletown that used a ROMA Steam Generator. Are water was too soft and they had to add a cartridge to make the steamer work. Sent it to us from Austin Texas.

Check out this steamer Counter. This was roughly a 85K project. 5'x8' foot Vancouver Special....


KICK ASS BABY. I love the film that changes to solid and clear. I learned a lot working on this steam shower. This job happens to be my first linear drain install as well. Since then I have installed roughly 50 linear drains.

In Vancouver Steam Showers are not as popular as linear drains.

Here is a good video of a Kohler Steam Shower starting up. This is a rebuild for a client who hired a Handy Andy to build a Kerdi Steam Shower. Handy Andy $%^ed up and we came in and ripped it out.....

 
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JohnfrWhipple

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How cheap can you do a shower for?

Maybe we should start there.

I still think we need to map out this shower.

I would let the plumber install the waterproofing liner and supply the drain.

I would let the drywall crew hang up den shield.

Then I would set the tile with Mastic and grout the same day.

Pretty much sums up how 80% of the showers in Vancouver are built today.

FAST & CHEAP.
 

ShowerDude

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"Roughly 13 Counter. Why do you ask? Did I say something wrong?"


ok its clear now that by you blocking our in house jack of all things smart the orange crush himself .....the block can get us into trouble....LOL

no you said nothing wrong..you just missed a post.......

thats a LOT of steamers and drains John....... you may be in the lead, lets wait and see how many Jim comes up with he has yet to respond....
 

ShowerDude

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How cheap can you do a shower for?

Maybe we should start there.

I still think we need to map out this shower.

FAST & CHEAP.

Ok heres a basic layout of the proposed.......3 wall capture 12x fur joists 16-OC. well need to cut out existing 12x12 porcelain floor in the shower area and take it down to substrate and build up, also demo the 3 wall capture drywall one wall being exterior and the ceiling. drain trap/rsier salvageable.

not barrier free and not curbless.....
Untitled.jpg
 

JohnfrWhipple

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Sorry Counter. I do not read or see Jim's posts. I have him blocked. Jim is a Kerdi Salesman. You will learn nothing other than reprinted info from installation guidelines and tricks he has read from other pros like me and you.

I noticed this week him recommending my tip coin technique on John Bridge's forum. Yet he failed to link to the How To Discussion I have show casing it. Or bothering to show an image.

Jim is a sad man who wants to be the smartest Internet Helper ever. Since I have blocked him I find my days more productive and happier. The man is ill I think. Sad really. What a way to spend your retirement.

I recommend you block him. He will just piss you off with all his promotion of one product. And he has no hands on experience like we do. Information is as good as the source it comes from. My posts and help come from years and years of building showers.

On Houzz I have almost 40 - 5 star reviews ( <-- click to read). Clients of mine here inVancouver and all over the world (I help design online as well - my night job). When I review something like Kerdi and Hydro Ban, my comments are not from reading but from doing. I don't quote lab results and research papers I report hard numbers that I find myself.

But the Internet is a free space. And if Jim thinks he is the smartest man alive - let him. People read this forum for months. Jim shows his true salesmen colours over time. If you are aware of it you will see it. He is the worst type of poster in my mind. Partially educated and on a mission to sell one SKU.
 
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